Why are things so hard to log into these days? Just

[SapphireSeptember]

Just tried to log into my NHS account to make an appointment for DS. Need photo ID and a recording of my face or a load of details about my GP. The last time I logged on I didn't need any of this nonsense. They've got my details! My photo ID is a passport from 2016, the last time I used it for ID I got funny looks because I've aged a bit since then, so it probably won't match anyway. If I phone up I'll get told to do it online.

Tried to log into O2 the other week and it took forever because I needed to re- register now they've taken over Virgin Media. Took about ten minutes to get through to top up my phone whereas before it took about two.

Everything needs multiple steps these days and it drives me up the wall. Yahoo! is still easy to sign into though!

I don't have the NHS app. I thought it was compulsory to do the face scan thing now. In fact, I got the impression from another thread that the next time I log into my government gateway it's going to ask for that. I hope not.

I'm quite happy with 2FA. If people are given the choice between face scanning and 2FA, wouldn't most of us pick 2FA?

If it's a choice between the current iteration of rubbish technology, and going back to things like cheques - which I haven't used for a decade or more - I would choose going back to that.

@Capillaryaction How did you get them to change their minds? I've got two clients who require required it for the ID pass that lets me access their office. It wouldn't have occurred to me to say no because I imagine they'd just find another contractor. Do you mean they require a face scan every time you enter into the premises?

@LauraNorda you've given me an ear worm now 🎤 This ain't no technological breakdown... this is the road to hell.

Emeraldroulette:
I say a variety of things....
I tell them I have a skin disability and they are discriminating against me and breaking the law. True- cos if I have an outbreak it would not recognise me.

I tell them they don't need to scan my face.

I tell them to have a zoom call with me and I ll show them my passport.

I tell them their systems are unreasonable and that other agencies do NOT insist on this measure. Which is true. The millennials think their way is the only way.

I tell them I worked for HM prison service and had to disclose every address I lived at since being born but NEVER had to do a face scan.

I tell them I have had jobs in this country since I was 12, I have full ID and I do not need a face scan to confirm who I am.

Every single person backs down.

It's a hill Im willing to die on.

Probably been said further up, but the face ID might be a one-off due to recent law changes. Should only need to do that once. I get why they need to check us on multiple devices, though it's a faff. Sometimes I get problems with veri codes coming through hours later though. It also seems a little pointless that you don't need to unlock your phone to see the code, seems that would add better protection

@lilkitten I set my phone so it won't show on a lock screen. They seem to be automatically set to have a message preview, but I changed it sor it just says "text message". It shows who the sender is though, but it doesn't show the content of the message.

I didn't know you could do that, I'll look into it. It always seemed weird to me - say someone stole my phone and laptop, they don't even need to figure out how to get into my phone, so it seems to not provide much security

@lilkitten the default security setting on phones always seems to be for the message to display in full, in general I always have to go through settings on a new phone because the default is to allow all kinds of things that I wouldn't have.

I agree - that doesn't make any sense about message display defaulting that way - especially as they must know people are using 2FA. I think this is part of the push to to use Face ID or fingerprint. I know people who were really pleased with Face ID and fingerprint but then they switched it off. I asked them about it but they just groan and say it will take too long to explain why they don't want it.

But hackers attack the organisation you jump a million hoops to get in to.
Does it matter your passport is a more secure ID verification than another, when the hackers take your verification details off a site to re launder?

Are there ways not to use these things?

I don't think so, no. Because even if you refuse to use the NHS app for example, you'd then have to go to the healthcentre and book an appointment, the receptionist will then say you have to call them up anyway. It's a tough game, sadly.

@YorkshireGoldDrinker if you're not using the app, you'd phone first, surely?

That's when fat fingered officials aren't mass mailing everyones details to all and sundry every five minutes. Or leaving them on trains.

My bugbear is the plethora of systems needed within the NHS (each one being a potential point of failure, so multiplying your chances of being exposed) plus the rather shit dodgy apps they use that don't respect accessibility setting and insist on revalidating 2FA every login.

Yes. So why have an app? For fun?

That's literally what we are complaining about. What's the point of all this, other than to make money for tech companies?

There isn't.

Our GP uses a service delivered by "app" called Livi that can't be used on an iPad pro - which is a friends lifeline for accessibility.

After a few to-ing and fro-ing I had an email saying they were well aware of this limitation (i.e. shit design) however they couldn't afford to fix it (i.e the offshore team they used had upped their rates) and could my friend try and lie on her side when using it.

Needless to say I was unimpressed.

This has made me laugh a lot as I have definitely used Fuckyou symbol number before as a password when I’m really pissed off with a sign up process.

Tell me about it. I've just spent the best part of half an hour trying to log in to my Subway app. I was sent an email with a 30% off offer and as I was going to be near one of their branches today, thought I'd make use of it. But oh no,the app wasn't having any of that nonsense. I'd forgotten my password so entered my email for them to send me a link to reset it. Email arrived,but nowhere on it to reset my password,just a 6 digit code number. Went back to the app,but nowhere to enter this code number. After 3 attempts,I gave up. It infuriates me when I get sent these money off offers but I can't use them because the poxy bastarding app won't cooperate. A similar thing happened with the Gregg's app a couple of weeks ago. I was sent an email for a free sweet treat for my birthday,it said go to the app. I went to the app. Nothing there!

I keep thinking that I would like to ditch mine as well.

There should be some kind of movement. Like a union of non-phone users. Demanding their rights.

I do wonder if conventional, in person, paper based services could now be a selling point.

There is a simple way to opt out of face scanning in the NHS app.

It's on the first screen, there's some kind of icon/settings button that if you click has an option to 'disable face Id' or 'use password to log in', can't remember the exact phrase.
I used it when I first downloaded it and have never been asked for it again.

I think we could, and in fact that businesses do. And people do as well, and at a certain point, it will not pencil out.

Might be worth having a quiet word with your dad to say that this incident shows that if something happens to him, your mum will be pretty vulnerable. He might rethink how they approach some things.

And why don't they also give you the web address so you can type it?

One of the websites I very occasionally use has decided that I can no longer use 2FA and have to use an authenticator app. I am NOT downloading any other apps. Fortunately because it's a work thing I can use the app I occasionally have to authenticate myself at work.

Yes, why do we need apps when a website will do? Are websites getting too expensive to maintain? 02 has recently done away with its Rewards website.

My 86 year old mum manages to use the NHS app. But 2FA confuses her utterly, and so when it occasionally logs her out and asks her to do it, she has to wait until I am there so I can help her. It's ridiculous. Even if you ask it to remember the device.

The issue now is that she needs a new phone so we will probably have to wrestle with the whole photo/uploading ID thing for that and her banking app. The other thing she doesn't like is bank transfers, she still prefers cheques. Some tradesmen bless them will take a cheque.

@Capillaryaction thank you for that info

I think the last time I tried to use patient access, it asked me to use an authenticator app.

I still don't know what goes on at my doctor surgery, but I am going to go and inquire. It's on my list of things to do. I should've done it ages ago really. I tend to just hope that if I need an appointment, I'll be able to phone up! But I should really get that sorted.

I've never used an app for anywhere that I might buy stuff from even if they are offering a discount. I don't really have to use sandwich shops or anything like that. I fully appreciate that if you are in that position, you want that app to work and you want to use all the app offers. So it's interesting to hear that those don't work either.

I used to mostly shop at Aldi. I really welcome anywhere that doesn't have this crap.

😵‍💫

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/451300/ultra-processed-people-by-tulleken-chris-van/9781529160222

🥳

If you have issues with the nhs app you obtain log in details from your GP surgery. I give these out all the time to our patients.