Think too much emphasis is put on time working rather than what that work is on Mumsnet

[Dacatspjs]

Time after time on Mumsnet when people come for advice on their relationship and there is a disparity in earnings and people are frustrated posters say that the financial contribution doesn't matter so much as the time spent working. I.e it doesn't matter if your bringing in three times as much as your partner, if you're both working full time then your home contributions should also be equal.

For me this misses a huge point about different types of jobs and the levels of stress, satisfaction and time you may need to decompress bring.

I had a previous partner, where I earned double what he did, I also worked from home, so ended up doing most of the housework. It was absolutely draining. But he tried to say I had more free time as I wasnt commuting. Thing is his job, was a thing he was passionate about (sports coach) he would happily spend hours at work because it was also his hobby. He would proudly tell people he was happy to sacrifice earning potential for work fulfillment, whilst I was picking up the slack.

Similarly I've worked with men who expect their wives to pick up the slack at home because they are "working" 50 hour weeks, in reality hours are spent at lunches, dossing around the office- they could leave earlier, but choose not to because they enjoy spending time with their work mates and not having to go home and get stuck in with childcare (they laugh about this, and will look for opportunities to extend the work day)

I'm not saying everyone is like this, or every disparity of earnings should be viewed through these lenses. But I am getting quite tired of advice to OP's being it's time spent at work that is important, not financial contribution - it fails to recognise that the emotional effort of working and stress of different roles can be massive.

I'm with you.

Imo if you contribute 50% to the bills then that's your financial commitment fulfilled.

Equally, if you do 50% bills you still need to do 50% housework and childcare.

Earning more or less doesn't buy you out of those percentages.nunless you agree to something else with your partner, like 75% financial contribution for 25% reduction in your housework allocation.

Women seem to love trotting out the "doing more to protect weekend family time" line though.

I’ve done jobs where my equal colleagues were the sole working husbands. Later, after a big move, I’ve done the sort of jobs wives do as job number 2. The only difference with the “little job” is a lack of autonomy about my time and priorities. In some ways that can be more stressful.

am getting quite tired of advice to OP's being it's time spent at work that is important, not financial contribution - it fails to recognise that the emotional effort of working and stress of different roles can be massive.

Isnt this an argument for taking account of levels of stress, rather than finances? There are plenty of very stressful jobs that aren’t particularly well paid.

Doing housework can be quite relaxing if you have a stressful job.

I never understand why this needs detailed investigation of who's job or contribution to the house or children is most important, doesn't everyone do what they can and what they are best at in all areas.

It always seems to be some other underlying problems that bring up the resentment about who does most of what. Who earns most, or works hardest, who does most childcare, most housework, gardening or DIY, exactly how the bills are split, it must be exhausting just raking over it all, all the time.

I presume though people are talking more in terms of if one is working full time and the other is part time, there should be a different split of housework. And if both full time, regardless of commute etc, you should split work in the house equally. However, there will always be situations where that doesn’t apply - eg doctors working ridiculously long shifts so they are doing much more than a 40 hour week and working every day, or someone that works away all week so isn’t physically in the house (but I’d expect them to pick up more at the weekend).

Ultimately though, all the housework and childcare shouldn’t fall to just one person, no matter the work split. It may be appropriate for one to do more than the other, but if the person working all the hours under the sun lived alone, they’d still have to clean a bathroom, change their bedding, do their laundry and cook their dinner etc! So they should still co tribute even if working.

I think for me it's not about earnings but mental effort and energy going into supporting the family. An OP might complain about having become the breadwinner by default or something and so many responses focus on "well you're both working full time" without exploring what that full time actually looks like.

I think it doesnt matter if you are the higher or lower earner, but we need to recognise that 40 hours in one job isn't necessarily the equivalent to 40 hours on another.

Usually the OP will post because they're at the end of their tether, and that never seems to be acknowledged. Rather telling them that their partner must be pulling their weight simply because of hours worked.

I'd never say my sports coach ex and a care worker were equal in terms of being mentally draining for example

But your view of financial contribution fails to recognise that when you are with a partner, your earning potential might be lower because you can’t just take a job on the other side of the world without impacting them, so you’re limited to the local job market. Or if you take a job on the other side of the world, it likely has a negative impact on their career. It also doesn’t acknowledge that some people might take lower paid positions that offer more flexibility because their partner’s job doesn’t have flexibility. Or where someone working in a high stress role that is poorly paid e.g. nursing.

Everything should be looked at as a partnership. If one partner has more flexibility, enjoys their work but is earning less, it doesn’t mean they should do more around the house. It might mean they need to bring that flexibility home and sometimes do more around the house. If the higher earning partner doesn’t want to keep doing that job, that should be a conversation rather than resentment building and looking at how the lower earning partner can increase their salary (supported through additional training or taking a promotion that short term will make both their lives very stressful) or where household costs can be cut. If someone in a high stress role is heading towards burn out then there should be a chat about else they can do, what salaries that will bring in and will the household need to cut expenses.

In both your scenarios though, it’s just any excuse men can think of to not be an equal partner when it comes to housework. So nothing at all to do with financial contribution, level of stress and all to do with the mental load of women.

Work and family aren't pick and mix though. I don't think it particularly matters what your job is or how much you earn or how many hours you work - you still have family responsibilities and you still live in a home that has to be run and maintained and finding any excuse to offload it onto another person who often ends up with a poorer quality of life as a result of that burden is bullshit. That doesn't mean that every situation should look the same or that there's a magic formula, just that both people count equally.

I don’t think it really matters who earns more, who works longer hours, or who has a more stressful job. What matters is how you approach and agree it as a couple. As long as the couple are happy with the split and feel no resentment, then who does what is irrelevant.

I'm with you.

Think too much emphasis is put on time working rather than what that work is on Mumsnet

But I read the title as 'Think too much emphasis is put on time working rather than time on Mumsnet' and felt very guilty 😂

Which is how it should be in an ideal world. But posters coming here aren't in an ideal world. Things have broken down, they're looking to understand their situations and work through their feeling. And time after time they are told repeatedly that them and their partner are working similar volumes and so their partner is pulling their weight. There is little acknowledgement or exploration on what that volume of work or contribution actually entails.

I think it’s so subjective and down to individual relationships it’s quite difficult to make any broad statements about what the right answer is tbh.

I do still feel that whatever the work set up, women still seem to bear the brunt of responsibility for the home / child / domestic responsibilities.

I also think women are generally more likely to try and juggle tasks, whereas men seem more likely to just go, ‘no I can’t do X because I am at work’.

It took some real negotiation over a long period of time for me to get it in my DH’s head he was the one who needed to negotiate a slightly different work pattern to pick up kids from school - despite it blatantly being not possible for me, him being able to make the flexibility… he just had never had to contemplate being flexible and available in the way women seem to have do constantly to accommodate all the demands on them.

I think for any family where both are working full time, there is a degree of being at the end of their tether much of the time - there’s not much downtime if fulfilling all your expected daily commitments properly!

I think you have to just work as a team. I took a more local job to get home for ten past five when my dc were secondary age.

I'd empty the dishwasher, make the dinner, help with homework. But my earning potential and career prospects were drastically reduced as a result.

I wouldn't say my job was less stressful as i was dealing with the public. Dh had a better paid job but it's skilled and pretty stress free.

DH would often fill the dishwasher and make packed lunches later on.

It depends on the situation. But if you're both on the same page with mucking in and doing what needs to be done it makes for a happy life. If one of us were ill or iver stressed, the other would pick up the slack. It's attitude more than earnings for me.

But you seem to be acting like the limiting factor on what you do around the house is, or should be, purely how much mental energy you've expended. It doesn't matter how many cups of coffee you drink during your workday or if you're having a lovely time - if you are out of the home, you obviously can't do anything around the house. It makes sense for the one who is in the house first to stick the washing on, not that the person who has a tougher job should be absolved from doing it as a sort of reward.

It’s not quite relaxing when you’ve been up at 6, done the school / nursery run, 50 minute commute to work, 8 hours at your desk, 50 minute commute home to… cook dinner, tidy up - and then whatever other housework or family related tasks there are to do that day though.

People need downtime too.

This is about personalities, not individual employment. I love my job. My job is sometimes stressful, sometimes not. My husband loves his job. Sometimes it’s stressful, sometimes it isn’t. When I have stress at work, doing more at home benefits me. When he has stress at work, he finds it harder to focus on the day to day. But, because we are adults and equally responsible for our home, neither of us get to duck out of it, we have to get on and do it. Together we give it 100%. Sometimes he’s 40 I’m 60, sometimes I’m 30 he’s 70. If we’re both at 30 we just have to dig deep.

If one partner is constantly at 20 at home because they are giving 80 at work, that is an imbalance and it’s unsustainable. That person is in the wrong job and needs to find a resolution.

What you find not stressful, someone else might find really stressful. It isn’t your place to decide your partners job isn’t causing them problems. Some care workers might find it relatively stress free. You can’t judge.

The point is, if something, anything isn’t working in a relationship, it takes both people to resolve the issue.

My post isn't about what works and what doesn't. It's specifically about posters on Mumsnet giving half-baked advice to those that come here in need.

It isn't about what works for you as a family or the individuals on this thread who've said what works for them. It's about people who post about relationships where things aren't working, they feel unsupported by their partners and exhausted, and repeatedly get lazy advice of youre both working full time so of course his contribution is equal- despite not acknowledging that there are many variables that come into play beyond hours worked.

Pushing housework as a hobby for women is one of the most bizarre things about the social media age.

I get what you're saying but say me and my husband both have an academic background in Maths and Economics, I choose to go and be a secondary school teacher in Harlesden because that's my calling, and he chooses to work in some hedge fund manager finance job that isn't really a job but pays well, should he make up for my choice?

I'm not sure I can use my choice to be in one of the most thankless jobs in the harshest environment to work as a reason that my work is more "worky" than his.

Yes it's not about the number of hours worked. If you work part time then look after a baby and a toddler, there isn't time to do all the housework as well. I think a standard well adjusted dp would recognise that.

It isn't about what works for you as a family or the individuals on this thread who've said what works for them. It's about people who post about relationships where things aren't working, they feel unsupported by their partners and exhausted, and repeatedly get lazy advice of youre both working full time so of course his contribution is equal- despite not acknowledging that there are many variables that come into play beyond hours worked.

Can you link to some of the threads you're thinking of? Because I don't really recognise this pattern. In my experience it's quite rare that an OP is told that their partner is already doing their fair share because usually they so egregiously are not.

Absolutely. Even in a situation where its a very traditional breadwinner/homemaker split I don’t think there’s any justification for leaving all the upkeep of a home and care for the family to one person.

Yes if one person is flat out all day some adjustments need to be made but ultimately both parties have financial and emotional investment in the household.

Nickel and diming one another over who spends the most time on which tasks is only going to cause resentment.

I agree with you to an extent. Here's why.
I'm contracted 37hrs a week, my wife is contracted 30.
I WFH and I work quickly meaning I very rarely do more than 3hrs a day. I do not work 37hrs a week. My boss knows this and is thrilled with my work and doesn't have more projects for me. I spend a lot of time walking the dog and pissing about and generally have a nice quality of life.
My wife works 12hr shifts and is absolutely and utterly battered when she gets in and often needs her days off to do nothing.
We both work full time but it looks VERY different.

I do agree to an extent. Not all paid work is equal and time isnt the only factor. Some jobs are physically exhuasting, mentally exhausting or both.

Also different people have different capacity at different times. I carried my husband when he had a breakdown for many years. Im having some physical issues now and he works more and does more other stuff too.

I think people really need to take responsibility for themselves
and TALK before deciding to have kids (or get married even)

Too often, one of the couple has weird expectations about the other one changing. So obviously you do change when you have kids, and you give up on your free time for their social calendar 😂, but when the woman has always spent her Saturday or Sunday bloody cleaning while her boyfriend was out playing football, running and seeing his mates...
(there was a thread recently)

on which planet do you think that will change just because you have a baby?

I am the mum, and I would have had serious fights with my husband if he had turned around saying: we have children, you now give up all your weekends, sports and friends, and you start cleaning / batch cooking and making family meals instead and the rest of the weekend is "family time" nonsense.

I am not doing that. We SHARE, they are both our kids, but the dynamic has stayed pretty much the same between us.

Before having kids, at the very least be on a 50% share of the housework/ admin work. Otherwise it's never going to work, why should it?

If someone has never cleaned the windows in the 5 years you spent together, he's not going to start cleaning the windows because you have a baby (and neither would I)