To feel completely overlooked and demoralised

[Iseverythingrosie]

Without being too outing my manager is leaving, I've done an unofficial senior role for 4 years to do all the things my manager does when she is on annual leave or sick leave as well as supporting the team with training and development above and beyond my job description. I've received nothing but positive feedback from clients and colleagues during this time and been recognised for my contributions up until now.

My managers line manager has decided while considering the next steps to request another manager take over the management in the interim despite zero experience in our department. I have been asked to take on a proportion of the this role as the new interim manager is missing a qualification to do part of the role which I do have.

I can't decide if I'm being unreasonable to feel completely overlooked to manage the team in the interim and feel like I'm being used to fill a knowledge/ qualification gap only. The reasoning given is 'resourcing' and I expect to eventually be restructured under the interim manager in the long term. It's made me feel utterly miserable.

Any thoughts welcome as I have no-one to talk this through in real life.

I think you should approach management with what you’ve said here ie you’ve basically done the job for 4 years and you are disappointed that you haven’t been considered for the job, given you have the experience and qualifications. No harm in making the approach. Tbh, if they still look to appoint someone else, I think you should be looking elsewhere unless they give you a bloody good reason to stay (asking you to do part of the role is very cf behaviour) ie a large raise. I’d be asking for this too.

We really have to speak up rather than wait to be noticed.

When your manager said they were leaving, if I wanted the job I would have messaged the next-up manager and asked for a chat, outlining what I’d been doing, and asked to discuss the process for replacing manager and expressing my interest.

If that ship has sailed, then have a discussion about what your new title and salary will be for the additional duties that are moving from manager’s role to yours.

Right now you’re making it easy for them so why wouldn’t they ‘just overlook you’. That is shit management but it happens all the time because bosses basically want the easiest route to solve a problem.

They also don’t know your ambitions if you don’t state them.

ETA: just realised manager is still considering the next steps. That is your opportunity to pit yourself forward. Go for it!

You absolutely only do it if you are paid for it and it is reflected in your reference if you ever leave.

If they say no to any of it, you stick to the job description that matches your pay scale. Apparently , you will not be qualified to do the job. After that, redo your cv with all your new skills and shop yourself around.

If you don’t look after Self Interest, no one else will.

I should have added that I have had this conversation with my managers line manager and was told they haven't yet finalised whether there will be a role to apply for or what is happening beyond 'considering options' and a rough time scale of six months doing this on an interim basis.

The worst of it is I am the most experienced member of the team (aside from my manager who is leaving) and the one who will be looked on to pass on that knowledge to the interim manager when my current one leaves. I feel backed into a corner to say yes to the interim increase in responsibility and to also basically train another underqualified manager to replace my fantastic current one.

And thank you to all the replies so far. It's good to get some outside perspective.

Absolutely this. They'll try and sell it as 'such a great opportunity!!' When really they're absolutely taking advantage of you and saving money.

How do I put it that I would like a new title to reflect the increased responsibilities when it's only on an interim basis? There will be a small pay increase in the interim but the main concern is not being able to show this to a new employer if I do leave which is looking ever more likely given the way I feel.

Id wonder if it is cheaper for them do things that way. It mightnt be anything to do with how skilled you are at all. No harm letting them know you are interested and willing to step up too

I would draft an email requesting a meeting and be super clear with your proposal. Along the lines of

• I understand that you want xx to take over management of the team on an interim basis
• I also understand that you wish me to train xx as they do not have background or experience in yy topics
• I also understand that you wish to expand my responsibilities to include ZZZ as xxx is not qualified to do this task

I am happy to do this on the basis that my additional responsibilities are reflected with the addition of Interim Zzz manager to my current title and my pay is increased by £salary to reflect the additional responsibilities. Clearly I understand this is a temporary arrangement as you reflect on the future management structure for the team.

I look forward to meeting you to discuss this arrangement.

I would draft an email requesting a meeting and be super clear with your proposal. Along the lines of

• I understand that you want xx to take over management of the team on an interim basis
• I also understand that you wish me to train xx as they do not have background or experience in yy topics
• I also understand that you wish to expand my responsibilities to include ZZZ as xxx is not qualified to do this task

I am happy to do this on the basis that my additional responsibilities are reflected with the addition of Interim Zzz manager to my current title and my pay is increased by £salary to reflect the additional responsibilities. Clearly I understand this is a temporary arrangement as you reflect on the future management structure for the team.

I look forward to meeting you to discuss this arrangement.

Thank you 👏 I have realised I'm not very good at asking for what I want and I need to be direct in this instance. This is so very appreciated. I'll be drafting something first thing on Monday 🤞

The worst of it is I am the most experienced member of the team (aside from my manager who is leaving) and the one who will be looked on to pass on that knowledge to the interim manager when my current one leaves. I feel backed into a corner to say yes to the interim increase in responsibility and to also basically train another underqualified manager to replace my fantastic current one.

They're being very sneaky, aren't they?!

They don't want you in the role, for whatever reason, but want to use all your experience to train someone else? And they get you to do this by increasing your salary for the interim, making it difficult for you to not do what they want.

I think I would try to negotiate yourself into the interim manager role, and if that doesn't happen, say no to the small increase, and look for another job. It's absolutely not worth taking a bit extra money only to have to give your knowledge and expertise away. You're worth more than that.

Ask the manager who's leaving for a reference as well as the standard employer one. That way you'll have your hard work and knowledge confirmed to new employer.

Make sure you also include that you are capable of and interested in taking on the full role. Don’t get pigeon holed into half of it and let the other interim person be automatically appointed to the proper team manager role.

Thank you, I have no idea how to negotiate the interim manager role and it looks like it's already been decided. I have brought this up that I have the skillset to do the interim manager role but been told basically I'm needed where I am and they don't want to take resource from our already understaffed team.

In that case you absolutely must say no to the small pay increase, and stick to your current job. Tell them you don't feel comfortable because there's no clear job title or job description accompanying the temporary increase in pay, and you feel without that there's potential for you to not be able to perform effectively.

They're just trying to milk you for your knowledge and experience.

And it's now time to look for a new job.

been told basically I'm needed where I am

This comes up over and over on Mumsnet. Brilliant employees overlooked because they've proved themselves to be such an asset where they are!

It's always time to move on when that happens!

Thank you, this has given me the confidence to say no. I am going to tell them that I would happily take on the responsibility for the interim manager position and point out why I am qualified to do so but no thank you to being used for my qualifications and knowledge on it's own (will word this better when I figure out how!)

“You are needed where you are” is their way of saying “err, no, fuck you very much for applying “.

Tbh I wouldn’t waste time on the interim role.

I’d say it’s clear that the role between your former manager and your own are now blurred and that what they are proposing has a material impact on your job description. As a result, let’s review that as well as salary and title. There is a risk that clients or the team will lose confidence if the point of escalation isn’t qualified, so it’s in the firm’s interest to ensure you’re positioned as ‘Team Lead’ ‘Senior Widget Expert’ - or whatever.

Do you actually want the interim management job - and is that more about HR, people management etc, vs Widget expertise?

Everything @CrimsonStoat said. All of it.

@Iseverythingrosie they don’t want you to move as they don’t have anybody lined up to replace you. You will never get a promotion in your current company.They already showed you this is the case.

Ask your leaving manager for reference,polish up your cv, time to move onto new pastures.

Good luck.

Thank you to everyone who has replied, it's really helped clarify that my suspicions are correct. I believe the reason for the timescale for this interim role is for the other manage to gain the qualification to take over so very much will be used.

I would like to have the interim manager role as it will help with stepping up to the next level of my career and I believe it will help me when I do decide to move on.

I think I will ask for the interim manager role and give all the reasons why and when they say no as they have already decided to make the other manager this then I will be saying no to the increase in responsibility for very little reward (pay or title) and push for a move elsewhere. Not to blow my own trumpet but there is a lot of knowledge that will be walking out the door if both my manager (who is already leaving) and I leave as nothing is written down anywhere.

Well done OP. I'd write down your arguments in bullet style to take with you so you are nice and prepared and dont forget anything. Also say to them that they should be considering all possible candidates rather than just picking someone out with no due process

Well, for God’s sake, don’t tell them nothing is written down. If you aren’t directed to write a Standard Operating Procedure, it’s a them problem.

And if it isn’t in your JD to write said SOP, don’t make it so.

They have provided you with their opinion of you. You don’t go back and grovel.

I’ve come to realise that senior managers can think you are great, and do absolutely nothing to give you a step up as a result.

It could be a headcount thing - they essentially have a ‘spare’ manager at the right level that they can slot in. That’s frustrating but not a reflection of your ability.

It could be that you’re just not on their radar as being ambitious and interested in the role. It should be obvious, given that you are doing a good job, but if the culture is to ignore anyone not openly advocating for themselves you’ll have to speak up!

I will not be drawing their attention to lack of SOP but I think they are aware. I don't think they have made a wise decision in pre appointing the other manager when there is a qualification gap and then expecting me to fill it with none of the recognition. This puts me on the back foot if they do decide to recruit for the manager role officially.