To wonder when Americans lose their roots

[categorychaos]

Curious to know (especially from US Mumsnetters) but when do Americans stop referring to themselves as having heritage from where their forefathers came from?

Whenever I read a bio on someone famous reference is often made to their roots - so for example German, French, Scots, Irish, French, etc..

Along with a fair number of people I have heritage stretching back to different cultures/places but after a few generations I would not refer to myself as Irish or French and it wouldn't tend to crop up anywhere outside of genealogy

Is there a reason they do it so much in the USA or am I mistaken in that assumption?

Sorry- I was doing American history fairly recently (I'm a history student at uni) but had got it in my head Irish immigration was earlier on in the 18th. 🤦‍♀️ But no, I remember now that there was a lot through the 19th and into the 20th.

That's very interesting to hear re staying connected to Irish culture, I can definitely understand the strong sense of heritage esp if people were keeping up with current events in Ireland.

Which ‘they’ are you referring to? And which ‘locals’?

I was born in one country to American parents, grew up in the states and have lived in Scotland for 20 years. My kids (who were born here) will both say they’re half American and half Scottish. Which isn’t really true - they are Scottish children being raised by Americans.

Up until marrying my husband, my entire ethnicity is Ashkenazi Jewish (via the Russian ghettos). Both sides of my family as far back as we can trace. So ethnically or culturally I was raised in that world - my grandmother was raised speaking Yiddish at home.

most people in America aren’t American in the sense that people living in other places are. We were all immigrants, mostly only a few generations ago.

I never noticed it growing up as it was normal to ask people where they are ‘from’ and not at all mean where are they living right now. I went to polish events, Italian events, Greek events… these were children my age being raised with Greek or polish or Italian food. Churches were often linked up to ethnicity in the same way so there was the Italian church etc. Many of these families had been in America for generations but they were holding on tight. There’s not really ‘American’ food like there is in most counties, it’s really specific.

I imagine this is changing as more people marry in different ways and more children are born who are 25% various things.

There absolutely is. I'm American and my late grandmother was still very proud that her family was here prior to the Revolutionary War (though as Hessian soldiers...but I don't consider myself Hessian/German American 😜). She viewed herself and our family as socially superior to, for example, recently immigrated Italians to America.

As some other posters have also mentioned, we're a young country based in immigrants and have historically taken pride in being a melting pot. Multiculturalism is one of the best facets of, just in my opinion, America.

Isn't American food a thing? This is stereotypical I know...but aren't stuff like molasses, grits, fried chicken, hamburgers, waffles, s'mores, clam chowder American? I know several may be more specific to a particular area than to America as a whole...but is it really true that there's no distinctly American foods, only cuisine from different immigrant cultures?

Also don't some things like pizza originate from Italian-American communities, eg, rather than from the original country? So in that sense they're American...

Fried chicken is Scottish. Hamburger- clue is in the name. Grits, native american. Waffles, Belgian/dutch.

I’d say smores and clam chowder might be truly American.

I definitely didn't grow up eating any of that - seems maybe southern American for the most part, but definitely not the food I had at home or at friends houses where I'm from.

Pizza is from Naples I think? There's an American way to do it (more toppings?) but it's Italian.

Thanks, interesting. I did know that some had immigrant origins- I guess what I was thinking was that the origin was less important now, and they were just general foods, (whereas Polish-Americans as I understand would probably mostly be the ones eating Polish food, and while Italian food has crossed over to some extent, probably Italian-Americans still eat it more often?) Or is that not accurate?

I think it's definitely regional. Another perhaps relevant point is that our country is so big and each region is like its own separate culture, so the food listed spans across the country. I associate grits and fried chicken with the South and would be a found locally to me only at a restaurant specifically serving Southern cuisine, it'd be a novelty. A big part of hanging onto our ancestors' origins I think is related to this; it's a way of having community in such a large country. We extend this to regions, too. I definitely take more pride and associate more strongly with being a New Englander and my home state than I do an American.

Polish Americans tend to make pierogies around Xmas. I don’t know if they are really Xmas foid, or just traditional food that takes time to make from scratch snd therefore feels right at Xmas.

I think the xmas cookie culture comes from the German immigrants.

The Ellis Island wave lived in urban enclaves, so tend to have a tighter identity. Although a lot of mixing as well—I have met so many Irish-Italians since they all go to the same churches and schools lol

Yes, most of that list I got from reading novels set in more rural US areas, - so I suppose that while that kind of food is linked to a region of America specifically, it's not an 'American' food in the sense of being common all over America..

I guess the thing is that while being Irish American is very different to being Italian American, or Polish American, most people in Ireland would see you as much much closer to American than to Irish, despite the cultural parts to your upbringing. It’s easier for you to see the differences in your culture to other heritages in the US, but it’s still going to be
hard to connect with people in Ireland, who are going to see you as almost entirely American.

I'm not having that!! Pizza is Italian. Not Italian American!! It originates from Naples.

I’m Polish-American on my dad’s side. His grandfather, who died when I was a toddler, came to the US from Warsaw in his early teens, and grew up in a Polish-American neighborhood. Both my paternal grandparents were one or two generations removed from Poland.

I’m German-American on my mom’s side. Her ancestors came to the US in the 1800s and fought for the Union in the Civil War. Several generations of her family were farmers in the Midwest who lived in small towns where most people’s ancestors were from either Germany, Sweden, or Norway, and that mattered when it came to which church your family went to. Some rural areas of the Midwest are ethnically homogeneous enough that people’s accents sound vaguely European. My cousin’s other grandpa never went to Norway in his life, but had a very Scandinavian lilt to his speech.

I think people quit being Something-American when their ancestry starts going into the single-percentages (6% Russian, 8% French) and they no longer have any cultural ties to “the old countries.”

And that's fine? I'm not saying they're Irish just explaining why they feel Irish-American and not just American. It's based on communal culture they're not just imagining it.

Yes, Americans almost always seem to position themselves as Irish-American, Chinese-American, German-American. Whereas my grandparents were from Italy and it wouldn't cross my mind to call myself Italian-English. I guess America is a relatively new country and it gives them comfort to cling on to some kind of established heritage. But Australia is even younger and they don't seem to call themselves "Greek-Australian" for example.

So one of your parents was Italian and you don’t have any of that heritage? That’s such a shame.

Also much of Southern cuisine has African origins because of the influence of enslaved Africans.

Oh I didn't know that

I found this interesting - I wonder if Americans agree ?

I read a book by an american woman on the Scottish Witch Trials. It might have been a good book if she had stuck to telling the stories of the women who were tragically abused and murdered by their own communities, the state and church but she really just turn these poor women's stories into a backdrop to talk about herself and her imagined scottishness. She claimed Scottish heritage but had no proof of it saying the documents had been lost by her fathers family long ago. She adopts the women murdered in the Witch Trials as her Scottish Ancestors seeing as the people of Scotland don't want them, fail to remember them correctly or simply won't talk about them as if the subject is some big taboo here. She also routinely ignored the various groups and societies that exist in Scotland to remember these women (and in some cases men) who were killed at that time and who continue to talk about what happened and keep their memory alive in our communities.

Her book left such a bad taste in my mouth, it was sheer high handed entitlement to come over here and appropriate something that was nothing to do with her for her own benefit and glorification. As I say if she had stuck to the stories of the women who died and not centred herself in the story I would have had no issue with it, it might even have been refreshing to have an outsiders take on it all but instead she just used our history in a very self serving way.

Sorry, I think you've misunderstood. My grandparents were Italian, not one of my parents. They came to England in 1917 and subsequently had my mother here. However I do speak fluent Italian and actually lived and worked there for 12 years. So yes, I am pretty up to speed with my heritage. The point I was making was that I wouldn't randomly introduce myself as Italian-English, unless it was somehow relevant to the situation. I don't think many people in the UK would, whereas the Americans always do.

Look up Dugald Stewart, philosopher on education. Yes, lots of Scottish and Scots- Irish impact on America.

Best luck with your research Carolina - I understood completely what you were trying to say.

And I am curious to know why you didn't include English in your list (It's not as if genealogy isn't a thing in England or Britain.) It also remarkably quickly devolved to Irish. Very odd. Telling, perhaps.
A couple of other 'curious' questions occur, such as why Americans' sense of themselves concerns you to the point of implying they should stop referring to their ancestry and questioning why they aren't like you. Do you expect everyone to be like you or is it just Americans?
I don't understand this preoccupation that keeps cropping up here, like an itch that demands to be scratched every so often.