Reception child disruptive behaviour and parenting programme AIBU

[Mamamia2019]

Hi,

My child has recently started reception. Child has always been a “spirited” child but we worked super hard the past few months with behaviour and child is currently being a dream a home 95% of the home. The prior behaviour at home was not listening, intentionally making mess/ being mischievous etc. never related to violent behaviour. Child also only went to nursery 1 day a week.

Fast forward to now- started reception, started with most days feedback of “not listening, being defiant against doing work, sitting on mat” etc. then we had feedback of “play fighting” which we strongly discussed with child was an absolute no-no in school and we had a few weeks of no play fighting mostly good feedback. This week have had 2 phone calls from school due to very disruptive behaviour, ripping things down, running away not listening etc. threatened to teacher to hurt children but never actually did. Then another incident of actually trying to hurt a child but not succeeding thankfully!!

Ive been constantly trying to work with school for reward systems I’ve bought in myself, timetable, discussing with child about school etc. arranging meetings with teachers etc.

Today I’ve been invited to attend a parent workshop to help his behaviour, I was open to this and was given info. On reading tonight I’ve discovered this is actually a “child to parent violence” programme!! I had repeatedly voiced to school we have no issues with violence at all at home, he has two siblings, and is never violent at all to them OR us!

It has been a really stressful start to his school life and I now feel bloody awful they have offered me this programme. I have no idea why they are offering this to us when I’ve clearly stated we have very very minor behaviour at home (nothing you wouldn’t expect of a 4 year old) and absolutely no violence with us or with family/ friends.

AIBU to think they are completely missing the mark here? Even if it was relevant I don’t see how as the parent me doing the workshop is helpful if I’m not the one caring for him at school, nor do we have the undesirable school behaviours at home.

Also any advice strongly welcome!!

Not sure the course is inappropriate when he is displaying violent behaviour in school. OP might say her ds is not at all violent at home, but I guess teachers hear that all the time from parents minimising or under playing what does go on at home. By doing the course, surely it helps to identify the difference between home and school so a plan can be put in place.

This is a great idea! I think he would really love this actually.

He does love praise but doesn’t work when he’s already on his way to being reckless so would be a good redirection before it reaches that stage I feel!

Thank you, I’ll suggest this tomorrow!

@Sandy483 lots of reasons why we haven't disclosed his diagnosis to his school as yet. We haven't needed to thus far. The kicking incident was one day in a whole school year so yes it was an isolated incident and nothing else happened. On that occasion he was coming down with something and tired so yes an off day.
We are not in the UK. We are abroad but fortunately we have access to alot of support. DS sees an occupational therapist once a week and we see a child psychologist every other week. There are already alot of things in place which work in DS favour - he's in private international school so the classes are small -15 kids, no school on Wednesday, no uniform, lots of time outside, on site occupational therapist and psychologist. We have not at this stage felt the need to tell school about his diagnosis.

@Mamamia2019 I think its a cop out if they are not able to tell you what is happening and when - request they keep a diary and set up a meeting for the update or they can update you each day. It's unreasonable to dump it all on you and expect you to figure it all out. For a brief time my son was at a montessori creche which he hated- we pulled him after 4 months but they told us he was disruptive and problematic and essentially they didn't want him there. This was before my sons diagnosis of ASD. I had repeatedly asked for a diary to try to work out what was happening as they implied it was all the time but when I eventually got them to the keep a record it was maybe 1 thing happening per week. Not to minimise it but they had exaggerated alot and just did not want him there.

Adhd is highly heritable so if your husband has adhd and you don’t, then there is a 35% chance that your child does. If you haven’t already, you need to let school know that your husband has adhd.

Listening to those behaviours, adhd sounds very likely to me (my child has adhd), but even if he doesn’t, the techniques which help adhd children are often really successful for children without who are just feeling overwhelmed. Some things which you can try straight away which might help with the behaviour are:

Do some exercise every morning before school
Try and reduce anxiety and demands in the morning before school - no shouting, help him dress, make his breakfast, no push for him to be independent.
No screens before school
Give him a high protein breakfast.
Give him a good multivitamin, extra magnesium and zinc. We have also found l-theanine helpful and other parents have found the same with omega 3.

In school ask them to try fidget tools and a wobble cushion and see if that improves behaviour. If he talks about school being too loud or too bright, or if the teachers say he shouts a lot or does things like takes his shoes off, get them to try ear defenders. Ask them to try movement breaks when he starts to “get fizzy”, and if that works get them to do them regularly for him to prevent the behaviour. If they have a hub or nurture room ask if he can have some time there during the week.

Ask if the incidents are happening less after PE on PE days, and more towards the end of the week. If so, try and make your time after school a bit more active.

My experience of doing this sort of course, is that whichever one you go on, bits aren’t relevant to your child. So, id go and do it with an open mind. They’re great for meeting other Sen parents, and often schools won’t offer other help until you’ve done them.

Also, to add, if he might have adhd then don’t punish/give consequences at home for poor behaviour at school. Let school manage consequences in school for poor behaviour.

I’ve just seen your post saying afternoons are his best time at school. Based on that if you make one change, I would make it exercise before school. Is there a playground you could have 20 mins in on your way? Or could you get a trampoline if you have a garden?
My guess about what is going on for him is that frustration is building across the morning but is then dissipating when he runs around at lunchtime, so he starts the afternoon with a clean slate.

Your DS isn’t coping in the school environment, some kids manage during the day then off load at home. Your DS is not coping in the moment. Regardless of where the behaviour is happening you still need to get to bottom of it and you may learn some helpful strategies , notice signs of dis regulation . . Plus it’s helpful to work with the school and tick the boxes.
But you also need to challenge school on what they are doing to support your child, discipline and informing parents isn’t enough. He may need small group work, sensory breaks, fidget toys , wobble cushion etc. What stratagies/plans do they have to work with your child? Do they have concerns about Sen?

I will definitely ask for the diary thank you. To be fair they are giving me specific examples of what happened each time so I know the frequency just not the triggers, very difficult 😣 sorry your son had a bad time!

But you dont know yet what he might have or need! He may have speech and language issues around social cues, or sensory processing issues which mean inner and outer sensations bother him, interoception challenges so he takes that bit longer to know what he feels and what to do about it. He feels anxious about chsnge for example, but the anxiety doesn't register in a way he can articulate so he gets dysregulated. Or he might have some of the above, but also lots of inpulsivity so he doesn’t appear to be taking longer to process things but his 'inside' isn't catching up witb his 'outside' leading to behaviours which aren't right for the social environment.

I'm not saying he does have SEN nor diagnosing him online! These are examples of s few things children age 4 can have going on under the hood. I am feeling a bit worried that you seem to have sort of decided SEN doesn't apply to him?

Not all children with specific needs, such as ASD or ADHD, present like they can't do something or seem obviously in need, to someone not expert. The most likely first presentation, as some people have pointed out, is unusual behaviour. Age 4 would be completely normal for this to emerge. Another typical first presentation, which SEN parents are telling you - is new inexplicable behaviour that comes with a heavy implication from teachers that there's something YOU are doing wrong!!!

Also you have ADHD in the family.

I would do the parenting course, just in case there is something you could change. But I would also start with an occupational therapy assessment. Once you start learning and looking I would bet you will find lots of little quirks that are just 'him'... but that might actually be indicative.

Don't beat yourself up about nursery. It really isn't essential, - it doesnt hold.back NT children if they don't go, and it won't mean that SEN children avoid later issues if they so go to nursery.

Ah, OK, now I know which course it is, then yes it's a good one - I haven't done it but ai have read the book.

I have a (diagnosed) SEN child and we've had times when the main problems have been at school and times when the main problems have been at home (mostly at home though).

We have been offered courses a few times in 10 years of difficulties but they've always been day time, term time (we're teachers) so we've just muddled along with books and paying for one to one advice. Secondary's been better as the stuff they offer is evening/online.

Give it a chance - you never know what you might pick up that's useful.

You've got a challenging child - it's not a criticism of you as a person.

I guess that is relevant in that without practice a larger crowded environment may be overwhelming, but my DS only had 3 half days/week at nursery before Reception and was fine, so it may not be a factor.

Previous posters gave some good suggestions re. strategies - tasks in class to earn praise, structure and routine, lots of movement. A child who is 'spirited' at home and manages better with clear expectations and small, predictable settings may very well struggle with bigger groups, transitions, new adults and peers etc. It's better his needs are highlighted early in education, and there's time to look at what triggers him and what supports he needs. What did he struggle with at home?

I'd assume the course is a generic one that's available (maybe because that's what school were asked about the most? dk) and not read more into it. It may give you some ideas, and certainly helpful to do it as a part of 'how do we support DC'.

My nephew was like this, he'd missed out on nursery because of COVID and loved school but got way too carried away with the excitement of it all. He'd also get frustrated at the well behaved kids. It took a while for him to care what his teacher said, he wasn't used to listening to anyone but mum/dad. He also got frustrated that most of the other kids understood all the rules so easily, he'd never really stood in line before, for example.

He's 8 now, doing well at school, popular, no SEN and has got the hang of it. Once you've made up the difference for his lack of pre-school compared to the others, you can see if there's anything else going on.

Oh dear, are you sure they have the correct details?

Who is offering the programme? Is it from Early Help service?

I accepted the offer of Early Help Service when we had a difficult time with extended family and a SENCO referral for youngest. The lady was lovely, very helpful with preschool things like toilet training, communication skills, child-led play. DH found her a great listener. He met her weekly to chat about his work stress and things. I was pleased he had someone to talk to, he's a classic mans man and usually bottles it up.

After a couple of months, I was chatting to nice lady over a coffee. Note she was new to the job, and keyworkers don't usually have qualifications just the training. I asked what the timescale was. She mentioned she'd almost finished a Swift programme with DH. I'm a clinician so asked which programme. It was 'Safer Relationships'!! DH had no idea. He thought she was just there for him to talk to. Apparently she hadn't told him it was a programme let alone one aimed at DV perpetrators! English is not his first language, and she hadn't provided any paperwork. I had to raise a complaint and her supervisor investigated. Turned out she'd got us mixed up with another case 😲 😳

I lost trust in services like this, when I realised someone could make such a horrific mistake (and not realise for months). I only discovered it because I recognised the name of the programme!

So I would ask for documentation stating how you meet the criteria, before accepting the programme. If there's been no violence from your child to parents, how have you ended up on that course?

Even trained staff are not immune to error. I'm so embarrassed I didn't question the details of our 'help' at the start!

We have been out on the trampoline this morning and we scooter to school so this is good advice thanks so much. Will see if we can get organised and go to the park maybe a few mornings before school to see if this helps. Thanks so much xx

No you are right I don’t know what issues he may have and that’s what we need to establish. I am completely open to him having any necessary assessments and if it turns out he has additional needs will support him in each and every way possible I’m not dismissing additional needs at all. It’s simply I worked extensively with special needs children in my early career and I haven’t seen any indicators he has any thing untoward. But I could absolutely be wrong as obviously living with him I may have got used to things that may be indicators.

I will do the course and hopefully take something useful away!

@FateReset makes a good point - it would be awful if someone in need of that course missed out!

Exactly! They told me it has very limited spaces and would feel terrible if someone has been waiting for a spot and I get one for behaviour that isn’t directly relevant.

I think the excitement of the new environment is definitely antagonising the situation as he’s a bright boy who loves to learn (also why I’m frustrated as don’t want him to spoil his learning for himself and his classmates). He’s also made new friends he is obsessed with and constantly talking about. I think there are lots of things going on but the big change, more children, new setting, intensity of 5 days a week are all playing into it.

My son is also a Covid baby x

That is terrible! I’m pretty sure they know what the course entails as they did comment something like “oh we know you aren’t experience CPV but there are other elements that might be helpful” I thought it was a tiny part of the course at the time like a topic, but when I read more learned that was the whole intention of the programme which is what threw me!

Yes lots of good advice I am taking on board and will implement.

This is very true! The larger setting I think is the issue for him, along with having rules and expectations on top of that compared to nursery.

At home it was mainly listening and when we said no he would do it anyway, intentionally making mess etc, lots of defiance. We worked LOADS on this and like I say behaviour at home is a dream now, he plays lovely, says please and thank you, “excuse me mummy” when he wants my attention, is kind and shares with siblings etc. don’t get me wrong he has his moments he tries to test us occasionally but we are very responsive to it and immediately intervene before whatever his doing evolves, it works very well. They obviously can’t 1:1 him in this way, nor would I expect them too!

Yes I want to be proactive and supportive of the situation as I am but feel very helpless at home.

Omg yes so much. Had this with my autistic kid. Didn’t know he was autistic till school as he’d been ok at home then at school became fully nuts.

I eventually had to confront the teacher and say do you REALLY THINK we’re teaching him to bite and spit and hit at home? You really think that’s what’s going on? Because if you do you should call social services.

Some schools seem to have a policy of not diagnosing kids (which is fair) but they take it sooooo far with not even breathing a word of ‘this might be SEN’ in case the parents freak out that it just becomes gaslighting where instead they make out like even totally deranged behaviour must be stemming from
stuff happening at home.

In the end my son’s reception teacher emailed me from her private hotmail address to say we should take my kid for an autism assessment. I’d had no clue, I thought autistic kids couldn’t talk. He was, we got therapy, now he doesn’t smash up classrooms any more.

Blimey, he's only been there a few weeks. Some of that was the settling in period! Give schools a chance!

I think this can be fairly common behaviour in Reception. A good teacher would realise this sort of thing was going on, though, and try to encourage a child socialising with a less rowdy bunch of peers.

OP, how is the reward jar being used? Are you following the teacher's idea on the best way to use it? Is something removed from the jar if he displays poor behaviour? Make a big show of saying "Oh, dear, because you hit Max, we need to take a piece out of the reward jar. What a shame because now it will be even longer before the jar is full. To earn the piece back you will need to show me that you can behave until playtime."

Because if nothing is taken OUT for poor behaviour, then the jar will still end up full at some point regardless. So potentially he could have a couple of days of poor behaviour but still end up with a full reward jar if he's displayed SOME good behaviour in some part of the day, and end up with a reward out of it!