Urgent advice - dire family issues

[viva343]

This is long and complex so I’ll try and summarise as quickly as possible.

My mother has been a functioning alcoholic for many years and copes with any sort of stress by drinking. It has greatly impacted our relationship and I will now only interact with her when she’s sober. There have been a couple of drunken rows and she’s let me down a lot and it all gets swept under the rug.

Last year my gran (her mum) had a fall and has been struggling since. Prior to this she was very independent but she had to spend time in hospital and respite care and although she’s back at home now it has become clear she’s struggling to cope. She is almost 90.

My mum has been ‘caring’ for her in the sense that she will go and see her a few times a week, do her washing and shopping and check in daily on the phone. I try to visit when I can but I have three young dc and work whereas my mum doesn’t, so it’s harder for me.

My gran stays with my mum at her home occasionally. I have noticed that mum drinks heavily while she’s there. She says it’s to cope with her. Admittedly gran has become a bit difficult and confused but mostly I feel like my mum is using this as an excuse to drink. There have been a few occasions when I’ve visited where I’ve observed them not being very nice to each other but it’s clear that mum isn’t dealing with potentially challenging situations well (for example gran accusing her of doing things she hasn’t done) because she’s pissed.

It’s actually very hard to know who is the unreliable one because gran is old and confused and mum is off her face. I don’t like leaving them alone when she’s in that state but I don’t think there’s any danger, it’s just a deeply unpleasant environment. And I’m pushing my own boundaries of being around my mum at all in that state because I swore I wouldn’t do it anymore.

I honestly think gran needs more support at home but she won’t admit it. And mum needs to stop drinking but that will never happen. Neither of them meet the threshold for an actual intervention. Mum did mention gran going back into respite care for a while but has never followed it up.

There are lots of barbed remarks to me about how I’ve done nothing to help (usually when she’s pissed) but I genuinely don’t have the capacity for it. It’s my mums mum and she doesn’t work or have any other dependents whereas I am flat out with my own family. It’s all a huge mess and I don’t know who to ask for help. There is no other family, just me, mum, gran and my dh and kids.

That sounds hard, I’m sorry.

It seems like getting your gran some outside help would be good in lots of ways, albeit not an easy thing to achieve. Do you think your gran would qualify for adult social care? Has she ever had a care needs assessment? I know getting her to accept it is a different matter, but assessment might be a good first step at least.

Does she have any funds to pay for private if she’s not eligible for state help?

Your mum, I don’t think you can do anything unless she wants to stop 😔

Really sorry that you are dealing with this op.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/

This sounds really hard and as awful as it sounds you need to step back and protect yourself and your own children. These adult women have made choices that have led to their situation. Protect yourself, Op!

Talk to Adult Social Care for an assessment, probably for both of them.

She does have funds for care and I sometimes think that would be the best thing for her but she is adamant it’s not what she wants.

We have looked into carers but my mum is never proactive in actually sorting anything out. She complains about how difficult everything is but won’t make steps to change anything. I think if she stopped drinking she’d be able to think clearer and get things done. But she won’t.

There was an incident a few weeks ago when my mother rang me at 11pm at night saying gran was going crazy and had attacked her. I rushed over and when I got there gran was totally calm, mum was drunk and I couldn’t make any sense out of what had actually happened because they were both saying different things. It’s very hard.

At times it seems like mum is close to breakdown too but then I’ll see her out shopping or whatever and she is fine.

I'm assuming that if your gran is 90, your mum must be at least 74? (sorry, if I've got that wrong). My own mum is around this age and I can't imagine her being capable of caring for somebody for a prolonged period of time. Her health just wouldn't be good enough for her to do that now.
You sound very dismissive of your mum's attempt to 'care' for your gran, but have you ever thought that perhaps she's not capable of giving much else?
I get that you have issues with her issues surrounding alcohol, but I think you could do with understanding that not everyone in their 70s would be up to helping out much because, physically, they're just too knackered to.

My grandfather refused help, he was 90 and very clearly struggling but very stubborn. He lived 3 hours away so I couldn't help much - I did contact his local social services but they said it was up to him to agree he needs help, which he wouldn't.

The social worker was lovely and sympathetic, he said something that stuck with me - "adults are entitled to make their own decisions, even if they're bad ones."

Not sure how you,ve worked that out. OP's mum could be anything from 50 and I think 74 is the absolute most she could be.

My mum is in her early 60s. Physically she is able to care for my gran, mentally she is clearly not coping.

I’m not dismissive, I understand it’s hard. But when I say ‘caring’ for I don’t mean she’s doing dressing her and washing her etc. When gran is with her mum may cook her a meal but gran does everything else herself, it’s mostly just company for them both and so she can be kept an eye on. But it is turning nasty between them and they are falling out a lot. I do think my gran says odd things at times because she gets confused but my mum deals with it in totally the wrong way. She will argue back and escalate situations usually because she is drunk and obnoxious.

If she wanted this situation to stop she could be proactive in sorting out alternative care. This really has to come from her as next of kin. But she doesn’t seem able to make any sort of decision. If there is anything I can do to help with this I will but I don’t really know where to start.

You're right! I apologise -blame it on Sunday morning, half asleep brain! Doh.

Have you tried yo tell your mum what you have observed @viva343 ? That she drinks when your gran is with her and it is not safe for your gran?

You could call your local county council and ask to speak to the duty social worker. You need to report a concern about a vulnerable adult. Explain the situation to them.

As for your mum having a go at you, tell her you have 3 DC and have no capacity to do any more than you are already.

Do you have any siblings? What was your childhood like and did your mum have help from your gran? Did your mum do any caring for her own grandparents?

No siblings. Very few family members. Have spoken to my mum many times, she knows full well how I feel about her drinking and she hasn’t stopped. She says she needs it to cope. I honestly hate the way she is when she’s been drinking and I’ve wasted many years worrying about it. I’m now at the point where I’ve recognised I can’t do a thing to stop it and I just have to protect myself when she is like that.

But when I’m getting calls in the middle of the night I feel obliged to go round even if it’s for my gran rather than my mum.

No mum never took on a caring role for her grandparents, my gran did it. She also looked after my all the time when I was young, she has been a wonderful grandma and I don’t like to think of her being so vulnerable. Mum just likes to blame me and play the victim as it gives her more excuse to drink.

Yes, this. Block out an hour or so when the kids are not around and make some phone calls.

Have a chat with adult social care about the situation. It may not result in any action but hopefully their perspective will be useful.

Also speak to Carers UK. They have a helpline and lots of practical information on their website.
https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/helpline-and-other-support/

And Al Anon about your mum.
https://al-anonuk.org.uk

💐

Does your gran have the cognitive capability to understand your concerns if you speak to her when she is alone?

Could she understand concerns about her daughter's drinking and how she is not capable of looking after her? Would it be worth arranging some visits to care homes that offer respite care to find one that your gran likes?

I wonder why you put “care” in inverted commas when it sounds like your DM is doing a lot for your DGM.

Being in the midst of it at the minute it’s very hard to provide ongoing care to an elderly relative when they refuse to hire professionals or consider a home. I am often in tears when I get home after a visit as it brings up a lot of past emotional issues, and I had a fairly ok childhood. It sounds like your DM is using the alcohol as a crutch to cope, which isn’t good for her or DGM.

I echo others, contact Age Concern and/or health professionals. What DGM wants doesn’t trump what she needs and shouldn’t come at the cost of the sobriety of her adult DD.

I know she’s doing a lot and I recognise it’s a hard situation but it is being made much worse by my mum drinking all of the time. It probably sounds like I’ve zoned in on this aspect of it but it’s because I’ve had years of dealing with it and I know how destructive it can be to her and those around her.

I say ‘care’ because largely gran is still doing a lot for herself.

Exactly this. Contact professionals, your mum isn’t coping with the considerable amount of care she is providing and your gran needs professional support. Things will only get worse until extra help is provided sadly

Sounds like unresolved issues between them from historical issues, ie maybe your dm is as she is due to how she was parented years ago, and these are now magnified with them being together a lot. They’re both adults, albeit dysfunctional ones, who just have to get on with it. Don’t feel pressured or guilt tripped into doing more. Just maybe pop your head round the door once a week to make sure there are no major reportable safeguarding issues.

Ring adult social care. They'll arrange for a visit and assess the situation. You have to report it as your nan is vulnerable.

Why does your gran have to go round to your mums? I’d be encouraging her to stay at home with carers and then your mum pops into her to support when she can.

It sounds like you might be afraid that something might escalate between them? Let social services know when you ask for the assessment for your gran that your mum might pose a risk as she has impaired function when she’s drinking heavily.

That sounds like a horribly stressful situation. You do keep saying that your mum won’t stop drinking, but she can’t and you have to accept that. A mentally unwell woman is caring for an elderly woman who sounds as though she may be in the early stages of dementia. Obviously I can’t know that for sure, but you have mentioned confusion a number of times and possibly forgetfulness. It’s quite possible that your grandmother did attack your mum that time, but their stories were different because she couldn’t remember. My mum had Alzheimer’s and I cared for her while looking after 2 small children, so I know how absolutely awful and draining it is. Once, I saw her fall while I spoke to her by video phone, but when I rushed down to her house, which took about 20 minutes, she was sitting on the sofa smiling away, with no memory of falling. Dementia definitely adds an extra layer of complexity and in my experience can make the person even more determined not to accept outside help. I know it’s illogical, but if they were in their right mind they might recognise their limitations. I agree with other posters that your grandmother needs a full assessment by social services. My mum accepted some help when someone official looking told her she needed it. She honestly thought she was doing everything herself and had no real concept of how much I was propping her up. She was physically very robust and honestly thought she was doing all her own shopping and cooking and cleaning herself!

Oh and I honestly think you are well within your rights to take a step back and let them get on with it, but obviously that’s hard when you’re being guilt tripped by your mum and getting urgent phone calls from her. Families can be messy. I know ours is.

Could your grandma stay with you for company at all? At that age she might not be doing much more than sitting on the sofa with the telly on and just wants people around her.

Unfortunately if she won’t accept she needs more help, you have to let her get on with it. As someone else said, they are adults.

You have my sympathies OP, it’s really difficult. I went down the rabbit hole of trying to help my DM with my DGM (she’s not an alcoholic, just lazy and selfish) and DM and I no longer speak. Regardless of my circumstance (even when I was extremely unwell in hospital) the demands kept coming. Do what you can without sacrificing too much of your sanity/ time, but I’d maintain very firm boundaries or you may end up being expected to do everything.

Does anyone have LPA for your gran? There are two types, financial and health, does anyone have either/both?

It sounds as if your gran has dementia, she is confused, needs daily help from your mum, and is 'accusing her of things'. If someone has dementia, accusing a close relative of doing something like stealing is very common.

Your mother understandably finds it difficult to deal with, so she drinks and then she cannot control the situation at all, and you have no idea if what she is saying is true. So you have two people telling incoherent unreliable stories.

And there is little you can do about it really. You can ask Adult Social Services to do a care assessment, but if your gran refuses to see them, or tells them she's fine with the current arrangement, they won't force it. Unfortunately you may have to wait until the situation deteriorates so much that intervention is inevitable, e.g. your gran has another fall and is hospitalised.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, it's so hard.