To be interested in why women generally live longer than men?

[JFDIYOLO]

Quite a few articles doing the rounds this week.

The XX chromosome combo seems more robust - if there's something wrong with one X, a woman's other X will compensate (eg I probably carry my father's colour blindness but my mother's healthy X patched that). But male embryos/men, with only the one X, may be more vulnerable.

Female embryos are more engaged with building the immune system very early on than male.

Men are more likely to do risky behaviour like motorbikes, driving dangerous, drinking, fighting - testosterone is a dangerous drug?

Men are more likely to be doing dangerous professions - building sites, deep sea diving, the military etc, and to die at work.

Men are more likely to murder and be murdered.

Men are less likely to consult a doctor for health issues - I once came home to find my partner googling 'What should I do about this pain in my chest' (yes, heart attack) whereas I'm on the phone if it doesn't look right, feel right, act right and to take every routine test on offer - because I've been socialised to know my entire female anatomy is trying to kill me.

Men are less likely to talk about and ask for help with mental and emotional issues which can descend into depression, and higher male suicides.

Even though women still die in childbirth, suffer PND, are way more likely to be murdered by their intimate partners and are prescribed drugs that were habitually not developed using female test cohorts.

www.sciencenewstoday.org/why-do-women-live-longer-than-men-scientists-say-the-answer-lies-in-evolution

So you get the advantage of more offspring, but is it that much of an advantage for you personally if it makes it more likely you'll die prematurely?

I think this too. Other posts saying similar, others saying women are the more sedentary ones? Obviously individuals vary, but I wonder what the general trend is?

One of the main reasons — and one that people don’t talk about often enough — is because they’re shorter!
Jeanne Calment, who lived longer than anyone else by a surprising margin, was 4 feet 6 and 88lbs.

Most women who live to be more than 100 and almost all who live to be over 110 were, even at their peak height, significantly shorter than average and much shorter than the average man.

Not entirely sure why this is. Possibly:
More cells means more chance of cancer.
A taller height makes blood circulation more difficult.
Falling over is potentially more likely and catastrophic at 6’2’’ than 4’11’’.

The title of the thread also made me think of a talk I watched about menopause helping women live longer (by removing the risks of childbirth) so women can teach and pass on wisdom to the younger generations.

I also recently came across an interesting theory in my DC’s book about all babies starting life as female babies I.e that is the default human; however Google says that’s not accurate
“Some people might think of female development as the default because it occurs without the SRY gene and testosterone. However, it's more accurate to say that the initial state is an "undifferentiated" state with the genetic potential for either sex, rather than a pre-existing female state that is then altered.“

I’m also reading Raising Boys at the moment and it’s quite eye opening how big the differences between the sexes can be in each developmental stage.

I’ve been reading this thread and feeling a bit daunted by my responsibilities to the species as a woman rapidly approaching menopause. 😳

If anyone’s relying on me for wisdom and guidance they are going to be sorely disappointed.

I am currently fulfilling the more useful function of a post meno woman, both at home and at work. Having almost retired, I now work one day a week, I am on speed dial for multiple queries and problems that happen. When I popped in on Friday to sort out my pay schedule ( self employed dentist so have to prepare my fees schedule each month and check the figures off the computer) I was grabbed by one of the nurses to “fix” a piece of equipment. Having owned and run the practice I am gradually passing on “ the knowledge”. Every year we have a clear out and the same pair of long handled forceps end up in the pile to get rid of, and every year I drag them out. They are perfect for fishing out things that fall down the back of cabinets and save us from having to unscrew the back of cupboards. They have other occasional uses.
At home I am now the mum who is consulted 24/7 by my DS and his housemates on everything from how to use the washing machine ( Google the instructions) to how to sort out bills and read electric meters. I am gradually imparting the secrets of how to live without your parents. I suspect I am the primary go to because I’m retired and according to my DS “ really do know everything”.

I am currently waiting for them to realise that they do have to sort out taking over the electric and water bills. Having read the tenancy contract from cover to cover, unlike the tenants, when they get cut off they will realise that actions have consequences. Ignoring all the bills is not ideal. I have nudged but I suspect that the “they know better” tactic will eventually backfire. But good parenting is not about fixing everything.

I’m not sure that is just women that are useful. In some families it is the patriarc that is the wise one. Maybe it’s because we continue to use our brains well beyond retirement that keeps us going for longer. My DH has lost a lot of his usefulness since retiring. He no longer uses his skillset whereas I still use mine and I’m still learning. The digital age is a whole new skill set I continue to embrace. My DS “kindly” left me a handset for his PS4 so I can use his games console he’s left at home. Currently they use the Xbox at uni. I’m now looking for games suitable for pensioners.

Men are more likely to go on all day drinking benders than women, and be overweight.
Obviously a mass generalisation but true for a lot of people I know.

Typically, in ancient societies, men were busy with warfare, hunting, perhaps ceremonial duties (shamans, etc), and pursuits outside of the home or settlement. Women raised babies, cooked, gathered, administered primitive medicine, and when older, helped take care of babies and children, pregnant and nursing women, and had duties around medicine and food prep, community property like baskets, pots, woven items, food preservation. and passing on community wisdom around food and medicine that lasted well into the years after they were finished with childbearing. By contrast, older men were pretty much surplus to requirements apart from ceremonial / storytelling elements of life. So goes the general theory anyway..

That stat isn't accurate though- most studies show married women as living longer than single women, the effect is just less pronounced than for married vs single men.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352827320302792#:~:text=Although%20marriage%20was%20protective%20for%20both%20men,absolute%20values%20as%20well%20as%20relative%20percentages.

It sort of suggests that men have/had no flexibility- they did their macho thing then came home and sat on their arses. So were indeed useless in old age. I would have thought there would always be a job for extra hands and another set of eyes. I certainly would have found them helpful in the thick of my parenting years!

I once did the maths on population stats at the time - U.K. only, and this was about 15-20 years ago. Birth stats were just under 51% male babies. Probably slightly more male pre-natal but male babies more likely to miscarry. Male babies also slightly more likely to succumb to childhood fatal illnesses in pre-teen years. Teens and early 20s - males mired in likely to die in accidents etc. By the age of 28 the sexes were evenly balanced, and then female percentage of population increases each decade.

Women have better immune systems, so we are less likely to succumb to infections etc.

It’s interesting that evolution has ensured more male babies to counteract the higher death rate.

The height and size thing is interesting - I'm taller and bigger than many UK men and I'm consciously losing weight to give my system less work to do in my 60s .

I wonder if lifespan studies are done in populations that have different average heights - say Japanese people compared to Dutch people.

In prehistoric societies, before / agriculture in hunting / gathering societies - WOMEN were the society / community. Men were only useful if they could hunt & were not allowed to remain if they couldn’t.

I thought men's sperm becomes poor in quality as they age which is why they can't donate over a certain age? Also the decrease in testosterone means they don't really want sex post 70 years , so the idea they can father babies forever is a bit misleading

The cliche that women are less competitive has been challenged by some scientists more recently, who argue that it's more that men are competitive in more noticeable (ie. Overtly aggressive) ways.
Heather Heying has quite an interesting article on this,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=naturalselections.substack.com/p/competition1of2&ved=2ahUKEwjp8P7DzY6QAxXRVEEAHWCVH8wQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2YSktsc1Uz6yu7JyAR9IT4

And this book makes a similar argument.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warriors-Worriers-Survival-Joyce-Benenson/dp/0199972230

I agree broadly though that women are more able to remain in large groups without severe conflict.

Most men don't want sex post 70?

I'm not sure, they say STDs are on the rise in nursing homes...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=wfhcfl.org/old-and-restless-why-std-rates-are-on-the-rise-among-seniors/%23:~:text%3DMany%2520seniors%2520grew%2520up%2520in%2520a%2520time,especially%2520if%2520they%2520are%2520past%2520childbearing%2520age.&ved=2ahUKEwjh5MWwi5CQAxWMQkEAHTo8KTwQzsoNegQIXxAC&usg=AOvVaw30rlKS2M049ZMiB7hjgsEk

It’s interesting that since the State Pension age has been equalised for men & women, women’s life expectancy is falling.

Sorry, that link doesn't work. This one does :

https://www.boomershub.com/blog/stds-in-nursing-homes

What was the programme?

Also this: worryingly high nursing home STD rates are sometimes the result of abuse by staff or other residents.

https://nursinghomesabuse.org/nursing-home-injuries/infections/stds/#1

Evolutionarily, your offspring are more important than you personally are. Biology doesn’t really care about you once you’ve fulfilled your purpose, which is to reproduce and ensure your offspring reach adulthood as best you can.

I can't remember, but it would have been on radio 4 because that's the only station I listen to, and probably within the past year.

This. Evolution is essentially:

1. Did you live long enough to reproduce?
2. Did you get enough of those offspring to reproductive age?
3. Did they reproduce?

There’s some stuff about conferring advantage on relatives. Cousins, nieces etc. for their portion of your DNA, which accounts for things like heritability of same sex attraction. But it’s basically all about sex and death.

That’s why the Darwin Awards only gives prizes for those two things.

Amongst women. Not necessarily amongst men. Many women can and do have consensual sex with male carers. It’s an open secret.

Probably because a lot of women have / are dying in poverty due to how suddenly the changes were affected.