To be interested in why women generally live longer than men?

[JFDIYOLO]

Quite a few articles doing the rounds this week.

The XX chromosome combo seems more robust - if there's something wrong with one X, a woman's other X will compensate (eg I probably carry my father's colour blindness but my mother's healthy X patched that). But male embryos/men, with only the one X, may be more vulnerable.

Female embryos are more engaged with building the immune system very early on than male.

Men are more likely to do risky behaviour like motorbikes, driving dangerous, drinking, fighting - testosterone is a dangerous drug?

Men are more likely to be doing dangerous professions - building sites, deep sea diving, the military etc, and to die at work.

Men are more likely to murder and be murdered.

Men are less likely to consult a doctor for health issues - I once came home to find my partner googling 'What should I do about this pain in my chest' (yes, heart attack) whereas I'm on the phone if it doesn't look right, feel right, act right and to take every routine test on offer - because I've been socialised to know my entire female anatomy is trying to kill me.

Men are less likely to talk about and ask for help with mental and emotional issues which can descend into depression, and higher male suicides.

Even though women still die in childbirth, suffer PND, are way more likely to be murdered by their intimate partners and are prescribed drugs that were habitually not developed using female test cohorts.

www.sciencenewstoday.org/why-do-women-live-longer-than-men-scientists-say-the-answer-lies-in-evolution

Personally I think a contributing factor is that women move their backsides from the sofa more often.

I wonder if this is also linked to the science that older men pass on DNA faults to offspring, so really although they CAN have kids later, they really shouldn't, so to protect against these "dud" genes women stop being fertile. The trouble is now men just chuck the older woman and get a younger one pregnant. Which actually is a benefit to the older woman and younger generation as they have one less adult person to look after, so they can help look after the next generation.

This is true of whales too, saw that on a Attenborough documentary, so it must be true!

That's not true though...married women also live longer than single women, the effect is just less pronounced than for men.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32875051/%23:~:text%3DMulti%252Dstate%2520models%2520estimated%2520TLE,life%2520expectancy%2520among%2520married%2520persons.&ved=2ahUKEwjko7fAxYuQAxW1YEEAHfJaDOwQzsoNegQIHRAi&usg=AOvVaw053VmvvQvHNkyt00I3Czif

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352827320302792#:~:text=Although%20marriage%20was%20protective%20for%20both%20men,absolute%20values%20as%20well%20as%20relative%20percentages.

It’s so they quite literally never have to look after themselves.

Elder widows in my experience tend to do better than elder widowers.

I think because women have been accustomed to looking after others they can continue looking after themselves, while men have had housewives to look after them so have a harder time functioning when they have to do it themselves.

According to The Lancet, the journal of the medical profession, men have a greater risk of dying with COVID than women:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31748-7/fulltext

But women are far more likely to develop dementia, possibly due to menopause effects on the brain:

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-025-03564-3

How does that correlate with smaller animals tending to live shorter lives than much larger animals?

I think it’s more complex. My gran died and my grandfather was very practical. He could cook, sew, make things, clean.

But he was horribly lonely. Because women tend to have friends, keep family connections, be active more in their communities. Men, without women, get very lonely very quickly. And loneliness is like smoking 15 cigarettes a day for your health.

We live longer because in the ancient prehistoric past there was some kind of fertility advantage that came with the genes that caused menopause. But note that these aren’t genes associated with early menopause but those with late menopause which makes sense. Women who are more fertile overall do tend to experience later menopause and do live longer. So the ‘grandmother hypothesis’ is probably a correlation to that - ie that prehistoric grandmothers were from a very small subset of women who experienced later menopause and (possibly) extended fertility.

We already know that some disorders we consider as damaging now like PCOS gave prehistoric humans a fertility advantage in deserts and areas with lots of famines (the difference of a few kg probably but significant) & it causes later menopause and extended fertility too. So it’s possible there was some gene that came with menopause (specifically late menopause) that allowed us to live longer.

Women are far more likely to live to an age where dementia is prevalent that’s why. T

I'd agree with that.
There seems to be more social outlets for women who have been widowed.
The 'men's shed' movement is relatively new and still trying to become established. The outlets for men seem to be bowls or golf which both require and element of fitness or the pub but theres less local pubs than their was even 20 years ago

Widowed women are more likely to be involved in charity shops and churches (or other religious establishments)

Previously men were more likely than women to work FT, to work for longer, they didn't have breaks to bring up Dc.

Once that evens out with respect to women, the life expectancy will be more or less the same.

Men's shed is brilliant. I met some from a Shed at a festival in Hampshire and they were working, mending, creating together, helping and advising each other.

The male loneliness thing is interesting - loneliness is a factor in depression and suicide.

Do we socialise girls to be more ... Socialised? Is this a field where women have an advantage?

Side thought about sport over the last few decades - until recently boys were taught and encouraged and praised for getting good at sports that involved kicking, hitting, punching, wrestling, while girls were more in the graceful socially acceptable box. We did tennis, gymnastics, netball and the horror fest that is hockey (which completely disproves my point 🤣), they did football, rugby, cricket.

I think it's the caring/nurturing/running around after everyone else that does it. At our local community hub, the women are making the tea, serving the meals, washing up, and the men are sitting there letting them. It was giving me the rage, then I realised the slightly martyred housewives of our mother's generation lived so much longer than the men who retired and sat there thinking they'd done their bit bringing the money in. All the social connections, volunteering and literally running round after other people might actually pay off in your 70s and 80s.

How would that work though as they're elderly so we'll past child bearing?

Hold on! I think I've just worked it out. Elderly women help with child rearing their grandchildren so they're more likely to survive and then go on to have children themselves.

Given baby girls are stronger than baby boys it can't be anything to do with environmental factors. Including working life, men being more daring, or loneliness it must be a biological factor.

Women's immune system can lower itself to avoid attacking unborn babies. Which might also be part of women suffering more autoimmune illnesses

Could their also be something in women generally prefer partners a couple of years older. So they as a couple will die at a similar point in time?

So older women without children are useless then. Good to know.

Nope Aunties and Great Aunties were made for a reason 😘

Whats not a natural thing is for a family only to have one or two children, larger families are more natural and at least some of them would have gone on to have children themselves hence Aunites would definitely have been a role.

Surely all the brains that compile these statistics look at cause of death? Surely cause of death would provide many answers?

All the childfree women that have been or still are in my life are very valuable members of their families and society at large. The world would not function without them, whether that was my great grand aunt (born 1879) who taught my cousin and I how to paint in her 90s, my great aunt who taught me how to ride a pony, my teachers at school, my DSis and SIL who are my kids favourite aunties, my work colleague who regularly hosts large Christmas dinners for the waifs and strays who don't have families close by and is currently helping my DD get some experience handling horses.

ETA: I think the things that childfree women do for their families and friends overlap with the thing post menopausal grandmothers do and show why women who are not childbearing are so valuable to society.

Do we socialise girls to be more ... Socialised? Is this a field where women have an advantage?

Well, you only have to look at the threads complaining that the (female) OP is expected to write the Christmas cards, organise family get-togethers, deal with her MIL over some issue (instead of her husband dealing with it), care for their parents... Yes, women are often the go-to for socialising and/or social care.

I think a lot comes from the protective effect of oestrogen on the body pre menopause

And yet in my experience get far less than their male partners.

I got 7hrs at a push last night. DH just came down after 11. And I couldn't have stayed in bed if you paid me, too much to do, mental list whirring in my head.

I also do far more physical work than DH. I do all household tasks, lawn mowing, sometimes hedge trimming. Don't the vast majority of women do more physical work?

Surely they are going to 'wear out' as a result of that?!

I always thought it was to do with men going out to work and having the stresses that holding down a job and bringing in a wage brings whilst women stayed home doing domestic work.
Funny that the gap is narrowing now women work full time outside the home too