I get gut biome is important but things like the Zoe 30 + are extravagant nonsense

[Rowlinginthedeepanddeeper]

It's not that difficult to eat 30 different plants a week, and sprinkling minute quantities of ground-up seeds, herbs, and mushrooms on all your food is expensive, extravagant nonsense. We should be concentrating on teaching people how to cook good, plant-diverse meals, not peddling expensive additives!

Agree. It's just a way to capitalise on health anxiety

I thought the benefits of food supplements (including protein) had been largely debunked.

Unless you are actually malnourished for some (unavoidable) reason then a normal whole food diet is all you need.

Abosultely agree, and same with the probiotic drinks, protein bars and powders, and many vitamins/supplements. It's people finding new ways to sell you stuff.

On the other hand people have less time to make food than they used to so I can understand why people look for 'quick fixes'. A couple of trips recently to places where it's easy to eat out with fresh vegetables and salads and home made type food made me slightly sad that it isn't that easy to do that in the UK....

Its easy to get into the mindset we don't have time, and I struggle with chronic fatigue too and resorted to ready meals a lot.

But I have rediscovered they it's possible to cook lots of simple (bake in the oven type) meals with minimal effort. Eg bake a couple of chicken breasts /salmon fillets with veg and thats two lunches that only take a few minutes (plus baking time) to prep. Or I do double the amount and freeze some portions.

I think industry wants us to believe we need quick fixes to "get enough protein" etc but we really don't

I cook a chicken and a tray of roasted vegetables at the start of the week, and this is the basis of a good amount of my meals, along with a vegetable and lentil soup batch-cooked on a Sunday. I add variety with salads, dressings, cheeses, different breads and grains to accompany, and as many different fruits as I can find cheaply, along with Greek yogurt, mixed nuts, mixed seeds, and berries a few times a week. I'm an average cook at best and hit 30 vegetables/fruits easily without additives.

Same @Rowlinginthedeepanddeeper

A mix of a few different salads a week, a different veg soup each week and different types of baked meat /fish with veg.

I batch cook home made pancakes for breakfast or have greek yogurt with different toppings or sometimes cheese and meat with some fruit.

What are you 30 say this week? Or last week?

Because I eat a varied and healthy diet and though the same, but it added up to high teens/low 20s in terms of variety. To get to 30 I ended up with a lot of food waste (as I couldn’t really eat leftovers as that used up an opportunity to eat different veg) and I’d buy broccoli or a bag of carrots and not use it all because it would’ve made multiple portions and I only needed one.

I’ve bumped it up a bit more by adding chia seeds or flax seeds, but that feels like an additive to what I would normally do.

I suppose using mixed seeds with my yoghurt would add 3-4 in one go…

But the 30 is just a guide, as long as there is variation overall, it's going to be fine. Supplements are a waste of money.

For me, so far this week

• apples, banana, plums, mango, grapes, blueberries, raspberries, satsumas
• broccoli, cauliflower, sweetcorn, carrots (various colours), parsnips, beetroot, onion, potatoes, peas, leeks, cucumber, pepper, tomato, aubergine, sweet potato, spinach , green beans

And that's just what I can recall quickly

I roast /turn into soup and then freeze portions .

Bag of 9 mixed nuts from Amazon, bag of 7 mixed seeds again Amazon - I put these on Greek yogurt with either a chopped apple or berries if I can get them cheaply; that's one meal and 16+ variety.

I normally hit 30 by Wednesday easily but no longer really count as it's all second nature.

A tray of mixed veg cooked all at once is 5/8 types depending on season - I do cheat and buy bags sometimes if short on time. I make a soup on the basis of onion, leeks, and carrots with red lentils plus any other veg I have left over, which I then have 2-3 times a week and try and eat with seeded sourdough - relatively cheap and easy. Ryvita or other wholegrain seeded crispbreads are great as a basis for brunch with various proteins such as nuts and a bit of mixed salad - I use a big iceberg as a basis then just a few more expensive mixed bags of leaves - dressings can contain loads of herbs, etc. Honestly, not difficult.

Are you saying that the advice to aim to eat at least 30 different plants is extravagant? Or nonsense? Or that healthy eating is expensive ? Or have they now started selling something ?

They are selling 'Zoe' but there are others a very expensive suppliment

I don’t think it is that easy for most people to get 30 plants a week, especially if they are out at work/ school. I’m in a habit of eating lots of nuts, grains and legumes now but there was a point where i would buy a Zoe 30 supplement from Waitrose and if I wasn’t eating well I’d sprinkle a spoonful on kefir or hummus with toast or pitta. it’s not like a supplement that’s highly processed into a pill. I liked its crunchiness and taste, it is much more natural than other supplements. Waitrose stopped selling it and I have changed my diet so I don’t need it but I’m home all day and I have a big kitchen with plenty of cupboards to store food. I have plenty of friends who don’t find it easy to eat 30 plants a week and I’d definitely recommend Zoe 30 for them.

Ah - that’s what happens when research needs to make money directly to survive

Ooh and mushrooms, i forgot I had mushrooms too , in soup and in roast veg.

And then I have a seed mix I use in yoghurt

Yes, soup is amazing for making sure veg isn't wasted and getting in a good variety easily. I am allergic to lentils or would add those in too

Try a canon mixed beans instead of lentils?

Oh I didn't think of that! Good plan.
Just had bean salad for my lunch as well

I don't agree. I buy the 30+ from Marks and Spencer. £6 iirc. Helpfully contains 6g of protein per serving and nearly 5g of fibre.

I eat an exceptionally varied and good diet - partly helped by working in a secondary school so masses of different veg and pulses each week at lunch.

But we all need more help with fibre, I try to aim for 30-40g a day, usually hit 20g for breakfast.

I think anything that encourages people to vary their gut biome will help.

Additionally I've had three lots of antibiotics and nsaids and codeine after several surgeries so my Gut needs all the help it can get!

I also buy symprove.

The general consensus though is that most food supplements don't provide any actual benefit unless you have a deficiency

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/dont-waste-time-or-money-on-dietary-supplements

What makes it a dietary supplement? 35+
Is simply nuts and seeds and berries which are pre mixed so I don't need to.

My GP suggested Symprove which I suppose is a dietary supplement. I don't do hideous farts anymore so I think it's probably doing something good.

I know that the Spector podcast advises against probiotics as does James Kinross author of Dark Matter.

But if my GP suggests it, And it helps me, I think that's a good thing.

I eat live yoghurt, drink kombucha and eat kefir too. Are they also dietary supplements?

YANBU.

I switched to 30 veggies a week about 18 months ago on the advice of my NHS oncology team following BC

It's not hard, and my budget is about £60 a week for two of us. I buy a mix of salads, root veg, beans, fruit and frozen veg to make up the 30. I don't count herbs or spices.

Many people make a lot of money from inventing and flogging food trends.

This week, so far

onions, carrots, swede, lentil, celery (veggie soup)
coconut, tomatoes, brown rice,
satsumas, sultanas, apple, kiwi, peach
Lettuce, radish, cucumber, peppers
wheat (home made wholemeal bread)

Tonight we've got five spice duck with cannellini beans and spring onions

with three days left.

I note the ASA made Zoe remove their claims that this isn't "ultra processed" though.

So it's more than a "simple mix of nuts and seeds".

Quite. Same as the protein supplement industry.
It's no different from the beauty industry - making money out of playing on people's anxieties

I can't comment on the zoe one, mine is M&S and looks pretty non processed to me. Literally nuts and seeds and legumes and goji berries.

The zoe one looks very expensive for a small serving!