I get gut biome is important but things like the Zoe 30 + are extravagant nonsense

[Rowlinginthedeepanddeeper]

It's not that difficult to eat 30 different plants a week, and sprinkling minute quantities of ground-up seeds, herbs, and mushrooms on all your food is expensive, extravagant nonsense. We should be concentrating on teaching people how to cook good, plant-diverse meals, not peddling expensive additives!

I've never heard of any of this 😳 and I consider myself relatively healthy in terms of a somewhat varied diet, few UPFs, and walking everywhere. But I don't have social media or go in for any "wellness industry" type stuff so maybe that's where the gap in my knowledge is.

Is the advice to eat 30 plant-based foods a week, or 30 of just fruit and veg? I definitely don't hit it either way... a typical week's shopping at the moment looks like:

Apples, pears, bananas, satsumas, plums, dates, carrots, peas, brocolli, lentils, edamame beans, kidney beans, cucumber, avocado, tomatoes, baked beans (do they count?), butternut squash, mushrooms, leeks, potatoes (do they count?).
(Plus, if nuts and seeds count, then pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, cashews, ground almonds - but these usually get baked into a cake so probably not earning me any major health points!)

That's max 24, and I don't think I actually even get through all of that every week. People who are "easily" hitting 30 by Wednesday are getting something right that I'm not!

It all counts. Flax, oats, chia, nuts, herbs, spices, rice, potatoes, legumes, quinoa etc. Plus fruit and veg. It's not about portion size, it's about variety.

Except if you're vegan. I didn't realise I was undereating protein on Mounjaro until I started tracking and I really was. Calorie control + sufficient protein as a vegan requires supplements.

You can't just ignore portion size though. 30 tiny micro portions in a week isn't going to be enough fibre. This is where people need to apply a bit of common sense.

Don’t forget a sprinkle of ground cinnamon, a nut, a herb, pulses all feed the friendly bacteria and count as plants. I always just make a healthy dinner with veg and pulses and think, what 2 extra herbs or sprinkles can I add. Plus of course fermented foods daily - so a spoon of kimchi or sauerkrauts on the side , or kefir mixed into my Greek yoghurt etc.

Also with porridge you can make your own mix using cheap oats, chia seeds, flaxseeds, sesame and pumpkin seeds and cinnamon. I have this ready mixed in a Tupperware and then add fresh fruits / yoghurt etc. so there’s about 6-10 plants in that bowl already.

it isn’t about fibre though, that’s a separate thing

It's nothing to do with fibre.

YABU simply because so many people I know do much better with low fibre.

Fibre research hasn’t proved anything conclusively. People on carnivore diets for example who don’t eat any fibre also see vast improvements in many diseases.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11409203/

That depends on how much protein you're trying to eat (there's not universal agreement on how much it should be) and your diet. I can get the NHS protein recommendation on tofu, soy milk, seitan and the rest of my general diet. If you're going for a higher target then it's different.

The NHS recommends 0.75g per kg body weight but this is the literal bare minimum to prevent protein deficiency and is based on research from the 90s. 1g protein per kg body weight is the generally accepted minimum in 2025. I can't hit that and stay under 1900 calories a day even if I ate tofu or seitan for 3 meals a day. I'm also aiming for more than that since I'm perimenopausal and don't want to lose muscle mass. If you're happy to consume the NHS recommended minimum that's cool but it isn't going to see you in optimal health.

Agree, op.
I've spent a fortune on those zoe seeds, water kefirs, gut supplements...none have helped me feel better.
I'm now concentrating on eating more whole foods, fruit and veg

Well Zoe isn’t saying that to be healthy you have to include those supplements in your diet. There is tons of information about their recommendations free to access online and ways you can hit that target of plants. So I disagree with the basic premise.

A lot of the recent recommendations around protein come from people funded by the protein supplement industry.

It's a bit like taking advice on healthy cigarette intake from British American Tobacco

Adding in a range of normal household herbs and spices, seeds, veg and fruit, beans and peas, coffee, cocoa etc and it’s easy to get to 25-30

agree the Zoe 30 is expensive unnecessary stuff. Podcasts good though

Zoe’s dry mix thing does have a load of dried mushrooms (several sorts) which is harder to get hold of, so I can see why ppl might try it.

I have been doing it all myself for 2 years now and it soon adds up when you consider all the types of plants that are included

That's just one example. But thinking you can take tiny amounts of things sprinkled on food to tick nutrition boxes rather than just eating a good whole food diet is a bit like relying on homeopathy

If you say so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Not sure about whether the Daily 30 is worth it or not, but I do love the (free) Zoe podcasts. They have helped me a lot .

I hit the 30 different F&V every week, but I start out meal planning and buy all I need for the week.

So every supper has at least three servings, every lunch has at least one additional serving and breakfasts are different fruit, oats and wholemeal bread.

A big serving of my home made veggie soup can contain five or six of onion, leek, swede, celery, carrot, potato, kidney beans, tomatoes. If you keep peas, sweetcorn and broad beans in the freezer, and lentils, kidney beans, cannellini beans, rice in the cupboard.

My fridge normally has lettuce, radish, spring onions, beetroot, cucumber. Plus a full fruit bowl and dried fruit as a reserve.

To be fair to the medical staff, I think they may be right. I haven't had a cold since I started this. I seem to brush them off.

How many live in your house?

Theres only two of us so I can’t really imagine buying all that fruit in one shop as we wouldn’t get through it with all the will in the world!

I have the multiple mixed nuts with Greek yogurt. Almonds, walnuts, brasil, cashew, pecan and macadamia. Or I have a warm weetabix or porridge with chia and flax and frozen berries. It’s such an easy way to get a huge nutritional hit to your breakfast.

and I disagree that all supplements are a waste of time. I had surgery 7 weeks ago and I started 5 types of collagen 4 weeks veggie. A scoop in my coffee every morning. My nails are insane, and yesterday at a check up my rheumatologist said my crepitus had improved too and I definitely feel less pain in my knees. D3 with k2, and a b complex are important to me too as I very easily get deficient.

Isn’t ‘Zoe’ eyewateringly expensive?

You can obviously follow the principles on your own but if you really buy into it? Tests, supplements, diet plans, ‘blue cookies…’

And what’s with the naming of everything - enzymes called Maurice and the like?

It just sounds like another over complicated diet designed to do nothing but make someone their fortune, no offence meant to Tim Spector, he seems like a nice chap, but one simply selling an unnecessary product.

I'm glad you said that.
1 chia seed ain't going to do much for you - unless you're a blue tit.
And if you want to eat seeds and nuts (I do), eat seeds and nuts rather than grinding it all up into cat litter.
PS. Keep your nuts in the freezer. They last longer and the texture is lovely.

I get a veg box from odd box. They come in multiple sizes so you get lots of variety in each size but the amount varies.

Plus I get a mix of fresh and long life things from the supermarket - eg pickled gherkins and beetroot.

I make lots of stuff into soups so there isn't really any waste

Or cook a batch or something and freeze it

I think you need the good bugs first before fibre can be beneficial otherwise you will just get bloating and other bowel issues due to an inability to break it down. The research I saw said to first build up your microbiome using fermented foods and then to gradually build up the fibre to feed them.

I think the problem with a gut based on a carnivore diet is that it is quite vulnerable. It will feel good at first becuase it is not being irritated by fibres it is unable to breakdown but if it experiences a problem e.g infection it will be harder to recover as it will be lacking in microbial diversity.

This best advice I read is to only do carnivore for a short while to reset the gut, then introduce fermented foods and then lastly fibre to build up a healthy ecosystem of microbes.