Rainbow badges at work - upset

[whatishappening123]

I work in a sector with vulnerable young people. A few years ago, we made the decision as a company to wear as part of our uniform, a name tag with the rainbow on as part of pledging our support to LGBT+
We have all received new name badges and for the first time ever- an option has been provided to have a red coloured one instead of the rainbow if staff 'do not agree with LGBT+'
I have raised this with HR and union and been told that staff are now allowed to choose and that is their right.
I feel really upset by this - colleagues I have known for years are now deciding against the rainbow badge.
We work with the most vulnerable- who are often LGBT. Some of our service users have asked staff directly why they are not using them- and they have lied saying " They'd run out , or the pin on the rainbow ones are crap, some staff are hiding the red ones.
It's not a majority by any means - it's probably about 11 staff in a staff of 60.
I just feel really really upset by it, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
I also don't understand how people can be 'against' LGBT
It's a protected characteristic.

It's absolutely disgusting that you have to wear a badge to say whether you support LGBT or not. I personally would not want to wear any badge, and would do everything in my power to avoid wearing either of them.

Nobody needs to know my views. Whatever my views are, if I'm at work, I treat all clients/customers/patients equally regardless or who or what they are, and regardless of my opinions on their life choices.

There is nothing grey about it. Rainbow paraphernalia is political to a lot of people and even if you have sympathies with a cause, a lot of people don't want to be a walking billboard for a cause.

Put it another way, the flag that you are proud of, would you want people displaying it under duress or even apathy? Surely that renders it meaningless, even insulting?

I think this is different (it is to me at least as if you are gay, you are born that way, rather than choosing an organised religion.

Do you think the same thing is really true of trans identities though?

So you'd be good wearing a badge that says "White Lives Matter" or "All Lives Matter" if your boss decreed it, then.

Nobody chooses their skin colour.

If the answer is no, now you get it.

@JLou08

See, this is where I think some people are reading it wrong.

I don't believe that the act of choosing to wear a different badge is intrinsically making any kind of statement.

There is this presumption that opting for a non-rainbow badge means that the individual doing so must be homophobic and anti-LGBT, but I believe that is an unfair presumption.

I am in favour of L, G, B and T rights - I support transwomen having the right to use women's bathrooms, for example - but if I were offered the choice of wearing a rainbow badge or a blank badge, I would choose the blank badge.

Some people like to visibly demonstrate their agreement with or support of a particular cause, and that's fine. But not everyone feels like visibly showing their support. I support gender equality, but I wouldn't wear a badge aligned with that cause either. I simply don't feel like it.

Do you honestly not see how forcing someone to wear a badge they don’t agree with is illegal, given the employment tribunals?

Hmm again I think this is slightly to the side of the issue. For a lot of our young people , being lgbt is not a given that they will be accepted, which is why we initially had the badges.

I don't think they should be forced. I think that as a company , we decided to show a safe place idea. I was initially upset that people chose against appearing like that to the young people as they are so vulnerable in that area. The views on here have definitely broadened the issue for me though and I'm considering lots of other things.

Why? LGB has long been accepted in the UK. Is it the T which is an issue, or are there particular cultural issues here?

Nope. It is 100 percent exactly the same thing. Rainbow badges are a political declaration. Inarguably. In exactly the same way as All Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter badges would be. Stop pretending not get it, it's incredibly boring.

It is not your place to force other people to tout your political beliefs. It is not your bosses place either.

You are wrong. Be told.

@whatishappening123

While that's true generally, there is some speculation (not science-based, I should probably say) that some forms of spirituality or theism may be an orientation for some people. In the same way, it could be suggested that atheism is an orientation for some as well. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with that, but it's an interesting thing to consider.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnbeckett/2018/03/paganism-as-an-orientation.html

This is an interesting blog post exploring the idea of Paganism and witchcraft being an orientation. He starts our with a quote from a witch who explains that for her, being a witch was not a choice - it's simply who she is.

"Witchery isn’t a choice for me. There is a being-ness to witchery, the aptitude for deeply, broadly sensing a far greater “normal” than others … Those with an orientation of witchery, naturally glide past the veil of illusion as our second-nature. This tends to become isolating, as muggle-society pushes us to the fringes, and calls us 'crazy.' "

In the cases of mediums (people who report the ability to communicate with spirits) - while many people do have to learn and train to do it, many say that it was always something they experienced and not something they actually chose. It's just the way they are.

Sometimes, anomalous (i.e. spiritual, mystical, paranormal) experiences are not a choice at all for people, and just something that happens to them.

I'm not pretending not to get it and no I won't "be told" by you
I'll continue to discuss on here in a meaningful way, and be respectful to others.

But you as a company were forcing individual staff members to align with a set of philosophical beliefs that they don’t agree with. And that is against the law.

and instead of accepting that, you went to HR and the union why? To get it over turned and force people to comply?

Mate, Naomi Cunningham is a barrister. She isn’t claiming that she is worthy of respect in a democratic society (WORIADS), but obviously she is. Do you think it’s possible to disbelieve in gender identity ideas without being a terrible phobe of some sort?

Agree 👆

You're being disgustingly disrespectful to your workmates and have written a repulsive post berating normal people for not kowtowing to your wants.

There is nothing at all respectful about you.

You are very much pretending not to get it, you think you're managing to hide that - but you are not.

It is not your place to tell your workmates to tout your political beliefs. It is not your bosses place.

You're wrong. Be told.

Mostly other people believe it simply cannot be true. Everyone is born Asexual, no-one is born wanting to interact with anyone's genitals. Sexual identity develops in some people and not in others (like myself).

No, to express my concern that we may be alienating some vulnerable young people and losing their trust

No, we just don't care. Nobody cares if you don't fancy a shag. That's literally all there is to it.

Your post is very aggressive and full of unfounded accusations. I've done nothing to warrant it. Your written portrayal of me is also wrong with vocabulary that is histrionic.

So if I tell you about a god I heard of, even if I’ve just made it up, you “believe in them”, do you?

So you wanted to force people to wear a badge in defiance of the law.