Flu nasal spray not vegetarian

[AhBiscuits]

DD9 is vegetarian. No one else in the family is. She's very strict about it and checks packets carefully for things like gelatin if she is unsure whether she can have something.

Just had the email from school about the flu nasal spray and it says in there that the spray contains pork gelatin. She would 100% refuse to entertain having this if she knew. I don't know whether the injection would be vegetarian, I assume so, but there is also no way she would have that. Maybe some people will say make her have the injection if she refuses the spray. I'm not convinced a nurse would inject a wriggling screaming child that I've had to physically drag through the door.

DD has a heart condition, she's had open heart surgery before, and her cardiologist always asks that she has any vaccines that are offered.

She had the spray last year, I must not have realised it wasn't vegetarian. She's been veggie for about 18 months.

I'm not decided on what I'll do but am interested to hear some different perspectives.

YABU - tell her and let her decide what she wants to do.
YANBU - keep quiet, let her have the spray for the greater good.

It was flu spray at my school today. Approximately one child in every class had the injection instead to avoid the pork.

Vast quantities of medicines contain non vegetarian products or have been tested on animals. Not even all paracetamol products are vegetarian.

It up to you if you want to start looking at every single medicine with your child. Personally I'd keep quiet.

Incidentally I am vegetarian except when it comes to medicine. I have a disease which requires a medicine which is not possible to make vegetarian. And I've had to accept it.

The injection my DS was offered was vegetarian. It was listed as an option for those who don’t eat pork or are vegetarian. I’d offer her the choice between spray and jab.

There's a vegetarian option available. Why not allow her to choose that?
She will find out about the pork gelatine in the nasal spray at some point, and if/when she realises that you knew about it, but deliberately didn't tell her, she is bound to lose some of her trust in you... not worth it..

She gets to choose how to receive the vaccination, not whether or not to have it.

My son has had the vaccination a few times now, as he didn’t want the spray because it’s not vegetarian

Not exactly the same @AhBiscuits but I went vegetarian as a child then later found out my mum had let me keep eating something she knew not to be vegetarian but which I thought was. I found out in front of a load of people and I felt so upset and foolish that this thing that was so important to me had been disregarded by a person who I thought Icould trust most in the world. She said she hadn’t wanted to tell me as it would upset me.

It took me years to get over it, and I’m sure lots of people will say I was silly but I haven’t ever forgotten how I felt & I’m in my 40s now. Thought you should know- I’d tell her and say the vaccine is no negotiable but she can can choose how she has it and she will at least have the choice.

Long term vegetarian here. At 9, and in these circumstances, I wouldn't chase trouble and would just give her the nasal sprat. Down the road if she discovered it is not veggie, she will be older and it will be easier to point out that means an injection. 9 year olds don't make good health decisions, so parents make them.

Viruses are only able to grow in animal cells, so eggs or laboratory cell lines derived from animals play a necessary part in flu vaccine production.

Our standard quadrivalent vaccines are produced by processes that include culture in embryonated hens’ eggs. Only a trace of egg protein remains in the flu vaccine, but as the egg has been fertilised, some vegetarians and vegans may object to this.

Egg-free flu vaccines are produced in laboratory cell-based culture (based on canine kidney cells).

New recombinant vaccines are increasingly becoming available and are manufactured to a precise molecular formula; the process involves insect cells.

Vaccination is recommended because it provides the best protection against flu, a disease that can kill. The Vegetarian Society recommends that those at risk continue to accept medicines they need, including flu vaccination.

So the injection is not wholly vegetarian. Depending on your feelings towards cells and manufactured animal cells.

The nasal spray isn't as effective (at least it wasn't the last time I spent time looking and advised by consultant ) it is cheaper and easier which is why it is promoted, which is fine when being used to protect older people.

My DS has a underlying condition which means he needs the flu jab to protect him, our consultant recommended refusing the spray on vegetarian grounds so he could get the jab at school.

My daughter is veggie and has always opted to have the injection instead. Normally if you let them know in advance they can do that on the day? (Quite a few Muslim kids in our school also opt for this option)

I didn't tell my DS and I feel bad about it, but I knew he would have refused the vaccination altogether if it were a needle. I'm hoping he never realises (he doesn't have any health conditions, so won't be offered the vaccination in future).

It's great that she's made the ethical decision to be vegetarian but I think that she needs to clearly understand that at least until she reaches adulthood, that ethical decision applies to her food - where there are perfectly safe and reasonable non-animal equivalents available, but not to medicines and vaccinations where there are intrinsic uses of animals. As a vegetarian she already has to accept that her choices aren't entirely free from animal deaths - the dairy and egg industries would not be able to operate without a system that kills the male chicks and calfs, but that has to be balanced with ensuring that her growing body is getting all the nutrients she needs. She needs to put this vaccine (or any other medication) in the same mental category - not quite ethically pure, but nevertheless necessary.

Most adult vegetarians I know draw the line at anything health related. It's fully ok to accept she's more important than the pig.

She can have the vaccine intravenously, my dd at that age opted for the injection, at the end of the consent form tick no and it will give you that option.

This.

She has principles which are admirable, but there's always a time where you have to consider life is complex and sometimes you have to compromise on something otherwise you end up in a purity spiral which isn't in anyone's interests.

The reality: if she doesn't have a preventative medicine that may not be vegetarian, then she may become much sicker and then be offered a choice of significantly more non vegetarian medicine or dying.

My DD10 is exactly the same and I’m afraid to say I won’t be mentioning it because I want her to have the spray. I know it won’t hurt her having gelatin for a once off, so I’ll just let it pass.

She is 9, she can't possibly be old enough to be making important decisions about her health. I don't think it needs a complicated moral musings.

On a separate point - if no one in the household is vegetarian - how do you make sure she gets a balanced diet that she needs for growth? I don't eat meat - but I told my kids that they can only make that choice when they are fully grown - because I didn't grow up in a vegetarian household and don't know how to make sure they have a proper diet for growing kids.

My eight year old dabbles in vegetarianism and I absolutely respect it when she’s in veggie mode.

But this? I would not say a word. Path of least resistance.

For me the clinching point here would be that she might need a pigs valve in her heart in future.

So, well before teenage years, I would want to get strongly into her head that medical issues are an exception to vegetarianism.

I would have a conversation with her about the fact this is the case, and show her some of the links above. And have some good in-depth chats around balancing ethics with health. And the fact that human lives being more valuable than animal lives doesn’t negate the importance of animal lives or the value of vegetarianism.

Then I would explain that the flu nasal spray has geletin in but that it is very important her health. That in this case there is also the injection if she would rather, but that in many cases there is no alternative so vegetarians have the thing with geletin in.

If she opts for the injection go and get it at the doctors before the nasal spray day, so that if she refuses, she still can still have the spray at school.

Are viruses plants or animals?

We are a vegetarian family and DS7 gets the nasal spray, for me health comes first and that’s where I draw the line

There’s an alternative for vegetarians I believe - DS’s school said to contact them if you can’t have pork gelatine.

Is she vegetarian or vegan? The definition of a vegetarian is someone who does not eat meat/poultry/fish/seafood or animal byproducts. She's not eating the nasal spray.

Sometimes there are no alternatives to animal products in medications. I am vegan but one of my daily heart meds are in gelatine capsules and the other contains lactose. In terms of veganism the stance is that vegans follow a vegan lifestyle as far as possible and practicable in terms of their health.

Yes, there is an alternative (the injection), is that practicable for her? Is she mature enough for a discussion to decide herself, understanding that it must be one or the other? If not, you will need to make the decision for her

This. Surely they have alternatives for the Muslim world.

I’m vegetarian and won’t accept medication in capsules. There is usually an alternative.

The injectable is actually less effective. Been taught that since it came out. Research backs it up.
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