Botox & frozen faces

[Expressionless]

If you have Botox to the parts of your face that mean you’ve rendered yourself unable to move large part of your face or have very little movement in your eyebrows / around your eyes, does it not bother you that you essentially look frozen and expressionless?

At the end of the day, most of us, would like to reduce fine lines and wrinkles - we live in a world that holds women to ridiculous youth standards - basically we all feel we shouldn’t age and that an ageing face is the worst possible outcome. But at what cost does this come?

Watching almost all TV / films now means any woman over about 25, maybe 30 at a push essentially has a frozen face and quite literally can’t show emotions properly. Most men don’t do it, so it’s definitely a sexist standard.

Women saying they ‘do it for themselves’ - well okay, but only because you’ve been conditioned to find ageing abhorrent.

Why can’t we just be left the fuck alone, to age and have faces that move and show our expressions and feelings. Like we have for 1,000’s of years.

For goodness sake!
I am a feminist but I do have Botox, for me.
I am 57, single, with no desire for a man.
But I have Botox, lip filler, have my nails done, eyebrows tattooed etc, because it makes ME feel good.
Why do women do this to each other?
Support each other, we are not all doing it for the male gaze.
i personally love to look good, because it makes ME feel happy.
Surely feminism can also align with making personal choices, without judgement from other women?
We are so so lucky in the West that we can make those choices, and are not forced to wear burkhas and hide ourselves.
We are all individuals, and can make choices for ourselves.

My only concern as posted on page 1, is the young early 20 somethings having 'tweakments' they don't need. Lip fillers, the eyebrow thing and botox.

Will they all end up Weildstein (?) in their 30s?

I want my two front teeth sorted - not turkey teeth, but something to cover the broken, cracked enamel. I still have a lovely smile, but it puts me off smiling! I'd love a neck tightening of some sort. If anything exists for chest wrinkles, I'd absolutely have all these things if I could afford them.

I'm 50, I'm a grandmother, it doesn't mean I want to turn in to my Nan just yet though.

All treatments would be for my own self confidence... So I've come full circle... Young pretty girls with low self esteem or lack of confidence because they don't look like somebody on TV.

Genuine question - All those on the thread who say they've had it done to look natural and not frozen and they've got a professional practitioner etc... How is it that we see so many female stars who are millionaires and it looks blummin awful?! They can afford the best of the best. Is it because it only really shows when you are older?

I'd go for the face-lift at my age. That would probably include regular top ups 🤣 Yeah £2.77 in my bank until payday 😂

If you don’t prefer the look, don’t get Botox done. It’s really that simple.

I get baby Botox to prevent this outcome and I prefer this look, you may not and that’s ok. No need to tear down other women.

They all get it done though? So unless you think all older actresses in Hollywood look awful, then you are just noticing the bad ones.

I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke. And I am not insulting, unless you find stating facts is insulting.

But if I did drink or smoke, i would not be injecting those toxins directly into my face, which is rich in important nerves, and close as I said to the brain, and also the eyes, which I prefer to keep my use of. YMMV.

There appears to be a lot of ‘bashing’ of those being accused of bashing😅

IMHO it is objectively weird to inject toxins into our faces for the main purpose of looking fresher. Being wrinkle free is objectively about looking younger - we only get wrinkles as we age, so what else really..?

It’s all well and good to say ‘it’s for me’ - but the point is, we’ve all been made to feel ‘less than’ for having wrinkles, for looking ‘frowny’ or tired or stressed or whatever.

I am not immune to these standards - there is a pressure in society for women (and some men, but far, far fewer men!) to look ‘fresh’.

The PP that said they felt they would be judged in their industry for looking older - it absolutely shouldn’t be that way.

This is not about bashing women or tearing women down, that sentiment is so basic and emotive. It’s not a wrinkles Vs not wrinkles debate - because if huge numbers of women are under pressure (consciously or not) to tweak their faces to feel better about themselves, then that is a topic that is up for debate - like it or not.

Honestly I feel my most energised and confident and fabulous after a bit of Botox, nails, hair done, gym done. I don’t do it for anyone else, just me and my endorphins.

You sound like you could do with a few of those OP.

But that's my point. If posters on Mumsnet have access to and can afford good ones, then film stars are hardly going to go cheap.

Aging is a reminder that time is passing.
Some get anxious seeing their face change and want to preserve time by freezing their looks.

You can express your opinion without an ‘I’m much happier with myself than you’ attitude.
I have occasional Botox and profhilo, I also dye my hair. I do that for me, I couldn’t care less what people like you and the OP think about that. I look exactly like myself, still retaining my individuality (the sneering audacity of you). The only unpleasantness I see is this goady thread.

Right next to your brain 😂

You see what you want to see Jackie..

Neither me or the PP have been goady nor have we demonstrated the attitude you’re tarring us with.

I can completely understand why so many women opt for tweaks, I have the same worries and fears about ageing, especially my face, but that doesn’t make the youth and beauty standards a positive thing for women does it.

At least try being objective.

👏🏼🙌🏼

Well I think you are rather proving the point about people who use botox being extremely defensive and unpleasant.

I don't see the thread as being goady.

I find it extremely worrying that botox users are so detremind to silence anyone who says anything negative about the use of botox. They are desperate to normalise it's use and I think that is a very dangerous attitude that is very negative for the wellbeing of women.

Oh dear Expressionless (great name for you), you need to learn what ‘objective’ means. Lots of women have explained to you why they have treatments. Lots of women have said they don’t and won’t.

Do you not have your hair done, nails painted, wear make up? Do you use moisturiser and occasionally a razor? Buy new clothes, have a facial or a pedicure? People like to look good, it makes them feel good, that includes men too. If you want to stay completely natural (which I doubt you are) then that’s great for you.

No one is silencing anyone! People are trying to explain why they get treatments and are being judged for not having any ‘individuality’ and generally being looked down on for not ageing ‘gracefully’. This faux concern is just an excuse to tear down women, it’s really unpleasant.

Why do women feel the need to have darker and longer eyelashes? Why do they feel the need to paint their lips red? Why do they feel the need to follow fashion?

Basically, why aren’t we all going around with no make up, no hair dye, dressed in a burlap sack?

Why are women that don’t follow your own personal definition of how a woman should look and feel be labeled as brainwashed and following trends as if they have no mind of their own? What is an acceptable level of embellishment that that doesn’t subscribe to unreasonable female standards? Is mascara ok? Highlights? Shaving legs?

I agree - I can’t see how being pushed further down the road of Botox, fillers, treatments etc is actually a net positive for women (and a much smaller subset of men).

Do we feel better about ourselves after these tweaks because we innately do? Or because society often equates a line-free face with vitality, attractiveness, and social capital - especially for women. Would the PP having tweaks to keep up at work and not feel her job would be at risk.

We need to debate this, because choices don’t happen in a vacuum. Many women feel compelled to change their face because of deeply internalised anti-aging pressure.

It stands to reason that you will feel better about yourself after tweaks - because you have maintained the standard set for women.

The point is, we shouldn’t have to live under this hegemony.

What a silly question OP.
Botox isn't compulsory. We are left entirely alone to age naturally if we choose. On an individual level I'd be amazed if anyone gave a jot how old you personally look or was pressurising you to have botox.
If you're an older woman who is feeling devalued, then you'll be devalued by default because of your age, because that's the way of our society.
If you are feeling pressure because of what other women are doing, that's on you and you need to develop courage of your own convictions rather than expect other women to ease things for you by making the same choices.
Goodness knows why you want to add to the negativity towards older women by singling out a subsection insult.
As for the faux question as to why they want to look that way, women who have botox clearly don't think they look worse for it or they wouldn't have it.
Maybe take your own advice and leave other women alone to navigate aging as they see fit.

You’re the one judging and looking down. Which makes you a bigger part of the problem sadly.

I don’t have ‘faux concern’ - that is such a tired trope, give over.

OP I agree with some of what you are saying. I’m a feminist (the proper kind).

I have mixed feelings about this issue. I think the more reasonable explanation is some of us older women in careers see what happens as we age, the male gaze works in two ways. We appeal to it or we are judged on it.

Some women just want to fly under that radar, not get noticed for anything apart from their capabilities.

So I get why women do tweaks to achieve that. So they can extend their careers etc.

Until society stops conditioning women to behave or look a certain way this won’t change.

Let’s not bash women for complying, it’s men who need to change.

All incredibly valid questions!

I don’t profess to have the answers - but it bothers me that the pressure on women to look fresher, younger, smoother and the gazillion dollar industries built around that is just growing to the point where we’ve normalised injecting poison into our bodies to keep up.

The standards seem to be increasingly extreme now than ever before. No doubt in line with the rise of socials and the pressure to look photo perfect as often as possible.

@Jackiepumpkinhead

This faux concern is just an excuse to tear down women, it’s really unpleasant.

I'm not sure what you mean by " faux concern".

I am extremely concerned about the pressure on women to look young:the idea that youth is the only thing that is important when it comes to attractiveness.

How you interpret this concern as " tearing down women" is a mystery to me.

You really are trying to silence women who are voicing legitimate opinions and concerns.

Yeah no, you're conditioned. We all are. It's ok to admit that.

This would be true if we lived in a vacuum. We don't.