To think that I have very little control over my childrens' appearance at school

[Hermioneshouseelf]

I guess I know the answer to this already really because from experience of when I was at school, my parents had very little control over how I looked once I was at school, particularly as far as uniform was concerned.
But now as a parent I'm finding out what it's like to be at the other end of it, and I'm not sure what I can do.
I have 3 daughters, 2 at primary school and one just started year 8. They've all had to wear the same type of uniform since starting school, shirt, tie, skirt, etc. Eldest has to wear a blazer for high school too.
My issue is that I'm not sure how to insist/enforce how it's worn. The primary school is pretty relaxed about uniform rules so the youngest daughters seldom have their ties done up fully and by the time they come out of school their shirts are untucked too. Once the eldest started high school I did try to make sure that she had her uniform in accordance with the rules, ie. shirt tucked into her skirt, top button done up with her tie, etc. But I'll be honest in that because of a hectic morning routine and having to sometimes leave the eldest to sort herself out whilst I drop the other 2 either at school or childminder, it isn't always possible to do the before school checks with her. So things have slipped a bit and I know that she's often gone to school with her shirt out under her jumper and her top button undone. And provided that her tie and top button undone have looked reasonably smart then I've left it.
But my eldest is now in a situation where she's getting uniform detentions for not adhering to the rules and I'm feeling responsible for that by not policing it all. And like I said I do realise that children change their uniforms on the way to school but I don't want her to get into more trouble.
What do other parents do?

Why are there consequences for something so totally stupid!!!

Hey kids you know how life is going to be poorer, harder and more isolated for you than your parents? Well here's a detention for not having a puffy enough knot in your tie (you know, the completely ridiculous bit of cloth that even adult lawyers and bankers now refuse to wear because it's so totally nuts).

And also adult women never ever ever wear ties why do teenage girls have to????? (Not that I'd make a teenage boy do it either)

My secondary school child has correct, well fitting and clean uniform in their cupboard at all times. If I am around in the morning I make sure they are compliant with the rules when they leave the house. What stupid decisions they make once out of my sight about untucked shirts or not wearing their blazer in the corridors is their lookout - it’s them doing detention not me.

I would step in and enforce things more if it was impinging on their learning or they were being put in isolation or sent home over it - things like piercings. But so long as they aren’t missing class time over it then battles over trivial uniform infractions like untucked shirts are between them and school.

I broadly agree, the youngest it sounds like the school are pretty chilled out. However the oldest, if she keeps getting detentions I would make it clear that I wasn’t happy and might reduce privileges at home too. Ditto I would be making having a detention as inconvenient as possible for her, i.e. not picking her up and making her get a service bus or picking her up later.

To be clear I 100% don’t agree with school uniforms, I would honestly ban them in secondary school but I think as parents it is important to teach kids that there are occasions when following the rules isn’t optional, and (SEN aside) if she wants to keep going to that school she needs to follow their rules.

Can you make a checklist (maybe a visual one) to put somewhere she’ll see it before she leaves the house every morning to remind her she needs to check? You have some control over what she looks like before she goes into the school building but obviously none during the school day

But in England you're basically shafted if you hate uniforms because everyone's obsessed with them. Maybe Steiner is uniform free but that's £££.

If my dd got more than one detention due to uniform, I’d tell her that if she gets another I’d be taking her phone off her for a few days. Hopefully that would remind her that I support the schools rules.

Well you've clearly not read or understood my post. I explained why I think uniform is important but I couldn't care whether that was a grey tracksuit or a shirt and tie. The "endless fussing" as you call it is because if I am deemed to not be doing my job and enforcing the rules then I will face capability proceedings. Just like if I didn't do other aspects of my job like the actual teacher or safeguarding.

The majority of teenagers wear their uniform with no major problems and will happily tuck in an untucked shirt etc. The "endless fussing" is usually with a handful of kids whose parents actively work to undermine our policies so their teenagers feel entitled to disregard the rules.

Agree with others though - I’d happily scrap uniform completely. It seems a peculiarly British obsession.

If they wore their uniform properly, there wouldn’t be any fussing.
I don’t have any strong feelings on uniform either way, but if you send them to a school with a uniform policy, you have to adhere to it I guess.

Honestly I don't know why every kid who doesn't want to wear one doesn't just say they've got ADHD and can't tolerate them or remember effectively. Then it becomes an equality act issue and the school needs to (or ought to) back down and leave them alone.

I am sure in year 8 she knows how to dress herself, and she is also aware of the school uniform policy, therefore it is her responsibility to ensure she conforms, not yours.

@Everydayimhuffling it’s about time schools ditched stupid uniforms. Maybe try telling SLT that? What a waste of your time? If I was a head I’d have a no uniform term. Get pupils to vote which one. Give minimum requirements - no bikinis for example. Dress down is office norm now. Schools just look pretty stupid by today’s standards and I’m not sure what all this effort produces? Other than annoyed dc.

Try speaking up. Also no Performance review should be based on targets for school uniform wearing! It’s utterly unprofessional.

You’re not really shafted, money wise you can get second hand in most places. And that’s sort of my point really, if you like everything else about the school apart from the uniform you just have to suck it up. Like most jobs, hobbies, social situations, friendships, child-rearing and life generally! Life doesn’t revolve around me and occasionally I have to do things that I probably wouldn’t choose if, overall, I’m getting something good out of the situation.

My kids’ good school is absolutely crystal clear that they are strict about uniform. That was the head’s opening line. It’s oversubscribed so he can, and did, say “if you don’t agree, don’t send your child here.” On that basis I’m not going to let my kids waste the teacher’s time by playing silly games with clothes without at least mentioning that I don’t really agree with it and, if it’s continuous, removing a few privileges at home.

Let her do the detentions and make her own mind up. She’ll soon get better at hiding her minor misdemeanours from the teachers.

I would try and find out why it is happening. My school uniform was so uncomfortable. We were hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It was synthetic, scratchy and unpleasant to wear.

Check that she isn't having sensory or comfort issues. Is she unheated and feeling faint. I developed POTS as a teenager and normal temperature control went out the window.

Also see if she has a friend who is dressing badly due to neglect or poverty or if this is a group bullying thing where she will be singled out if she doesn't dress in a particular way.

I can’t work out if this is just sarcasm, because to have ADHD you need a formal medical diagnosis for a start. Plus claiming to have ADHD or autism just so you can get out of wearing the uniform carries on the narrative that people who have genuine sensory issues are just putting it on, which would be unfair. And it would quite obviously be a lie if there were no other symptoms. Finally, would it not just be easier to wear the uniform that your parents have kindly purchased like everyone else?

Because teenage boys get inordinately distracted by girl's arse cheeks hanging out of their skirts.

As long as you are providing the correct uniform it’s up to your daughter to wear it as per school regulations, if she is repeatedly getting detentions they obviously don’t bother her that much .

She's year 8. She knows the uniform rules and the consequences for not follow them. If shecis persistently getting in trouble in school for uniform infringements then ask her if there's a reason that she's struggling to follow the rules. Maybe she thinks she's hard, a rebel or maybe she's got something else going on and is struggling to organise herself.

Incorrect. The equality act now requires recognition of self diagnosis of neurodivergent conditions (there's clear case law). It takes years to get a diagnosis so this is necessary apart from anything else.

@ThisKindAmberLemur They see that outside of school! A bit more, so what?

its not mad, it’s teaching the child they have to abide by a dress code. It’s preparing them for adulthood where they have to follow dress codes at work and so on

Erm I mean if you actually HAVE ADHD, not just intend to try to make a futile point. And if you show no other symptoms I very much doubt the school will worry about a failure to make reasonable adjustments being actionable under the Equality Act because of the total lack of any evidence whatsoever that anyone has a disability in the first place (and by evidence I mean either a diagnosis or any other evidence).

Honestly the lengths some parents will go to to try to prove a point with school is beyond me. If you don’t like the school/ don’t like the school’s policies, don’t send your kid there.

To be clear, I totally support my children's schools in whatever rules they have, no matter how daft they might seem to be to me.
I'm just getting a bit worried and frustrated I suppose, and thinking that it's maybe my fault that eldest is getting into trouble about this. There's 2 reasons for me to think this.
Firstly like I said I've generally been quite relaxed about the primary school uniform regarding ties and shirts. But maybe I shouldn't be because most of the other children I've seen tend to have theirs done up/tucked in.
Secondly my daughters all know how I used to wear my uniform at school much to the despair of my mother. She gave up telling me to do up my top button and somehow I got to be head girl in sixth form despite it!
And even now as a nurse I wear a dress which has a zip and a press stud at the top and I quite often have the press stud undone which probably isn't quite to the letter of the uniform rules but I find it more comfortable and I've never been told off!