To think it's a bit harsh to say people who've never worked shouldn't get benefits?

[DonaldBiden]

Was reading another thread where many were saying if someone has never worked they shouldn't get any benefits but couldn't comment because it had reached 1000 comments.

I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I don't agree because that would include young mums who can't work because they have a baby to look after. Most of them will get a job when their child is a little older. Why are they any different from older mums who've fallen on hard times and need help?

And I know people will say it's because they've never worked and haven't proven themselves unlazy etc and could be on the dole forever but why should they have their lives ruined just because of something people think MIGHT happen.

Being a carer - fair enough.

If you're made redundant that is unfortunate. You ideally should have savings. If these run dry, then benefits should be a temporary stop gap before you return to employment.

If your job is low paid, that for the most part is on you right? Social care I accept, the government funding for it is horrible. But on retail, why would someone work retail as a grown adult? Maybe they should have worked harder at school? Or spend some time working on developing new skills. I have a friend working retail. To improve his

My main ethos is that if you're physically and mentally healthy. Got 2 arms, 2 legs you are the maker of your own destiny. You are the captain of your soul. Welfare support for those in hardship should be temporary to help you get back on your feet

Bizarrely it is always used as a way to shut down a conversation. Poster A can't make a sensible point, so accuses poster B of a lack of critical thinking, yet Poster A can't see any other viewpoint than their own.

“But on retail, why would someone work retail as a grown adult? Maybe they should have worked harder at school?”

“If your job is low paid, that for the most part is on you right?”

What a totally ignorant and snobby thing to say.

Why are your bills higher because I get paid a lot for the job I do? I won't go into too much detail but I do a very good job in the offshore wind industry.

The mask slips!

Snobby but why ignorant? School spend years telling kids to work hard to get a good job. Jobs aren't randomly allocated.

Its isn't possible in low paid jobs to pay for the necessities of life and save enough to be able to continue to pay for them if you lose your income.
So, why would people stay in low paid jobs st all, you ask? Think for a moment. How many low paid jobs are there by comparison with highly paid jobs? How many bosses do we need compared to workers? How many people do we need on the tills compared with on the board?
When you've thought that one through, imagine that every single person worked very hard at school and took control of their destiny, and equipped themselves for a good jobs. Do you think there would be enough good jobs for them all? What would happen to make sure there was enough of these jobs to go round? And who would do all the low paid ones everyone was suddenly too qualified for?

Working hard does not necessarily equal a well paid job.

It is not an individuals fault that many jobs are poorly paid.

It's not taught you empathy though. There are a few sociopaths in this thread who, ironically, have been really badly raised.

But that's not true. Some businesses have a boss and then minimum wage staff, but lots of businesses only employee higher earners. Only 5% of jobs pay the minimum wage.

In the short term I agree, but in the longer term those who work hard get promoted and earn more. I think don't believe that people fate is determined by the "universe", it think it is our own actions that determine our path.

I think people should be given 1 year to sort themselves out whilst getting benefits but could also be looking for work. I don't agree with people living off benefits who never plan to work unless a severe disability.

As someone that worked within the care system, I can assure you it costs much, much more to keep a child in care, than it does to try and support them staying with the birth mother/father/both.

Yes, people need to stop giving birth to kids they can’t support, but taking them into care isn’t the answer, financially or any other way. 🤷‍♀️

This is absolute rubbish. People can ‘work hard’ their entire lives and still earn very little. People can work very hard in minimum wage jobs. This is the reality for many living in the poverty cycle, and it is total ignorance to think they can just work their way out of it. Your privilege is really showing here.

Most people who earn extremely high salaries earn them as a result of being employed at some point in the process of selling goods and services to others. I assume that whatever you do, someone is paying you to do it in order that something can be sold. The amount they pay you will effect the price they charge for whatever they sell and the person shouldering the burden of you and your high salary is the consumer.

It’s not always as simple as try harder at school, some people are not very intelligent and don’t have the ability to learn or comprehend more than at a basic level.

Those people are not to blame for their genetic make up, if you are lucky enough to be brainy then great for you but who are you to blame, judge and look down at someone less fortunate.

What actions did I take to get a brain tumour?

When referring to 'highly paid jobs' I wasn't using anything above NMW as my definition of highly paid.

“I think don't believe that people fate is determined by the "universe", it think it is our own actions that determine our path.”

I don’t believe in fate and I also don’t believe we live in a vacuum. We live in an unequal society where there is myriad discrimination and barriers to access health care, education, training, mental health support, etc. Poverty and trauma come hand in hand. Can you really say that someone who lives in a council flat in a deprived area stands the same chance of getting into Cambridge as someone who’s parents went to Cambridge, who are middle class and live in an affluent area? Even if both individuals are equally intelligent, can you not see how the more affluent person has greater resources and therefore greater opportunities for success? That’s without even considering factors like race and health. People living in socially deprived areas are more likely to experience trauma, are more likely to have poor health outcomes, and more likely to have mental health difficulties. We do not live in an equal society where everyone can just work hard and achieve whatever they like - that’s a total fallacy. Social and health inequalities exist.

Some people have forgotten about 2020 already.

"We do not live in an equal society where everyone can just work hard and achieve whatever they like - that’s a total fallacy. Social and health inequalities exist."

I think some people are incapable of understanding that. I am glad I am not one of them.

Can we stop making up that UC claimants are all sick and vulnerable?

Just look at this
To drop my hours to 22.5 even though I’m a single parent? | Mumsnet

Makes my blood boil that I worked 50-60 hours weeks trying to provide for my DC whilst paying huge taxes to fund lifestyle of OP on this thread. There are millions of people like her, current system encourages benefits lifestyle. It has to stop

Who looked after them while you were working?

Who's looking after millions of children of other working parents.

ETA: if you read the linked thread carefully, that poster isn't reducing her hours because she can't manage childcare, she doesn't want to work the same hours because she'd loose UC when her salary goes up. It's ridiculous

Benefits bill is the top expenditure item, until the system is changed drastically any government will have to increase taxes to a point of killing economy altogether. It has to change