To think it's a bit harsh to say people who've never worked shouldn't get benefits?

[DonaldBiden]

Was reading another thread where many were saying if someone has never worked they shouldn't get any benefits but couldn't comment because it had reached 1000 comments.

I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I don't agree because that would include young mums who can't work because they have a baby to look after. Most of them will get a job when their child is a little older. Why are they any different from older mums who've fallen on hard times and need help?

And I know people will say it's because they've never worked and haven't proven themselves unlazy etc and could be on the dole forever but why should they have their lives ruined just because of something people think MIGHT happen.

So if a young mums parents refuse to help her you think she and her child should starve?

But it's ok for an older woman to get help because she's worked in the past even though 99% of young mums will get a job when their child's a little older

Depends on the disability or health problem and the abilities the person has despite it. All of which are assessed before a decision is made a person need not seek work on health grounds. I'm not saying the assessment yields perfect results. Errors are regularly made. Usually that people are fit for work when they're not rather than the other way round though. My point is, that she will have had to convince that she is unable to work. She won't have just been paid out willy nilly and allowed to do as she pleases.

What would happen in OP’s example of a teen mum who’s never worked? Are there people starving on the streets in Spain because you don’t hear of it if there are.

I can't be pro-life and want any young child to starve. Regardless of the circumstances of their birth no child born should suffer. I think welfare should be temporary and a plan made to get into self sufficiency. Okay you're a young mum on your own, here's what you'll get, meet with this advisor and we'll find a way to get a job and skills to build a brighter future for you and your DC.

This is an excellent point. And I think the majority of the population agree as evidenced by the declining birth rate in the UK.

Unfortunately, the lower birth rate is sending the country into economic catastrophe! Their are now more people on benefits than in work and just over 75% of those on UC are demographically white British.

I hear a lot in the news about British people wanting their country back, let's look after our own... less immigration but you can't have it both ways.

Society needs all levels of labour to function. My mom didn't work raising any 9 of us for nearly 20 years (my dad was a doctor) and the state support was invaluable. People made us feel like scum for accepting it and I recall being so ashamed when mum cashed the cheque at the store as if you did it that way you got an extra 10% discount.

People forget it's a long game. Eery single one of us 9 went to uni. Every single one of us is now an additional rate tax payer in whatever country we've settled in. Spoiler... All countries hate immigrants even the ones contributing loads to the economy.

My British husband is a similar story. Grew up poor and received support but all siblings work and pay additional rate.

I just don't understand why British people are so angry at each other. They simultaneously want to only look after their own while then shaming them for needing support. Pensioners should have planned better, mums should get back to work, how could you allow yourself to become pregnant, I'm depressed but I still manage to work, how disabled are you really... Humans are complicated and life isn't one size fits all.

A longer term view is certainly required. I remember reading a long time ago that the biggest problem in politics is the four year term - we are conditioned to expecting change in a time frame that is simply not feasible for society.

Random Friday ramblings!

ITA. DD1 is still on DLA, but when she migrates to PIP, I will tell the DWP, they’ll have to come to our house. She’s got a life threatening condition and could die at any time. Stress makes her worse. She’s never been able to work, as it came on at 14.

As she has two neurodegenerative conditions, although she’s in her 30s, she has virtually no short term memory and is assessed as being virtually incapable of learning new information. They cannot assess her IQ anymore, as she doesn’t understand the tests. Her comprehension is about at the level of an 18 month old child. She can’t learn concepts. She recognises notes and coins are money; but has no concept of its value. It’s pointless talking to her about self sufficiency, as she has no idea what the word “sufficiency” means! She thinks shops and restaurants just give the stuff away, because they are kind. Aggression and irritability are symptoms of both syndromes. Anyone trying to get her to do something, she doesn’t want, could get verbal abuse if not get hit and kicked. (Probably because she’s frustrated, she doesn’t understand what they are saying)

She didn’t ask for this to happen to her; and she’s devastated by it.

All those of you, who say people who have never worked, shouldn’t get benefits - if you developed say motor neurone disease or early onset dementia, would you be happy to be left to starve to death? Would you be telling a toddler, they’ll need to work to be self sufficient?

I'm not privvy to her health problems to be honest, but I don't think there's an underlying reason why. But I've managed to work for years after I had a head injury and post concussion syndrome, so I think it's possible to work after a disability or health problem.

So basically saying, that you have no real clue, but will just decide whatever about this person, and their abilities to work, or not. Just because you could work with whatever injury you had, that does not equate to anybody else!

Unless they’re in care. My ‘parents’ were legally our Local Authority.

She would have minimum maternity pay for 16 weeks. Then, she would get 850 a month because of having a child under the age of 5. Enough not to starve, not enough to be a permanent life style choice. Also, nurseries in Spain are free from age 1. Before that they cost less than 200€ a month including food and nappies etc. with lots of possibilities for funding if family is considered vulnerable.

They stop getting support for children at that age, so many throw them out. What do you want the state to do? Let them die?

MND is something I've wondered and been terrified of myself. That's why I'm completely against the PIP cuts.

There's a difference between welfare for people who are physically and mentally incapacitated and people who are able to work. If you can work, welfare should be temporary to help you to bring self sufficient. If you're disabled to the point you cannot work or simply cannot survive on your own, how cruel is it it cut of all support.

No, i didn't say that. But I gave her as an example, as she's worked before her daughter, and then moved to Somerset and decided she was better off on benefits so would keep claiming them.

Surely if someone is saying they aren't going to earn enough by being employed and so would prefer to stay on benefits there's something wrong? It was her decision and prerogative to move to a place with less available or lower paid wages. Nobody made her.

I love opinions like that OP because no one ever has an alternative solution. If they don't have access to money what are we meant to do? Let them starve? Force them into a job, even one that isn't at all suitable which will still not cover their costs so they starve anyway? Also, WHAT jobs? Because the market is shite even for the fully qualified.

I love the idea of work schemes where people can be paid a benefit but have access to mandated part time work. They get experience and might even get a permanent role out of it if the employer likes them enough. But even that comes with greater costs than just giving people money.

My anecdote is all the teen mums i know personally got support from the tax payer and then went in to be fully functioning full time workers and stayed doing that from thier early twentiesm Whereas lots of the people we all apprive off who did degrees and had a baby older, have then worked part time ever since. So they aren't really paying much tax or thier student loan off. So in my friendship group having a baby young equals more tax paid by the time of 50.

(Other anecdotes available)

Plus I like to try and have a bit of tenacity, get on with trying to keep going. I like to set an example to my children that I kept going in spite of a horrible head injury and neurological involuntary movement disorder caused by some prescribed medication. I didnt just decide to give up and say I don't think I'm capable of working.

I did try to claim PIP at one point, but wasn't approved. So I guess I had to obviously keep working.

Oh bless, you think your life choices were entirely your own. That you never benefited from life choices others made before you and others before them.

Well..if every new mum went on benefits for five years ...!! why do some mums have to leave their babies in childcare for full working days to enable others to sit on their arses and play "always there mummy"? It's just not fair is it? If they have their own funds or a partner that supports that lifestyle , that's not a problem as they/their partner are funding that lifestyle choice and are not expecting the hard-working people around them to go to work in all weathers to fund the benefit mummy. It's parasitic. Going on benefits just because you have a child is not acceptable. If you are not able to fund your own child then don't have children until you are at that point where you can.

I've seen a lot of this too. That's why it jars to see people on that other thread say if you've never worked you shouldn't be able to get benefits.

As if someone needing support at the start of their adult life (or technically just before they're an adult) is less than someone who needs the same support at 30 or 40.

You could also say why have babies and hand them over to strangers every day.

That is good for you, that you were able to get back on your feet, despite your health situation. I try not to judge other people, because I am not living in their bodies, so I will not know how much they are struggling, or anything, on just appearances alone. It is not always as straightforward as having a store of resilience either.

If the child is born, I cannot in good conscience say let the child suffer. The child should be supported and loved.

Why should it be harsh???

No one is saying people will be physically forced to work, just that they will no longer be in receipt of financial benefits.

Who knows when this will happen next year when the IMF are called in, or a few years away when a Reform take charge. Take note, foresight is good as there will be no excuse for those who haven't prepared.

Yes

I see my own dds going back to work etc

people need to take responsibility