To think middle class people are the most insecure?

[OneCheeryGreenHiker]

The poor don’t have time for pretence, the rich don’t need to prove anything but the middle class seem permanently anxious about schools, cars, kitchens, holidays… AIBU to think middle class life is just competitive insecurity dressed up as respectability?

Maybe it’s not that the rich never signal status but that they can afford to do it more seamlessly. Whereas middle class anxieties seem to revolve around appearing established, often through things like schools, kitchens or holidays.

I'm probably middle class (my parents weree very but I've married a not middle class man so who knows), but I am very secure. I give almost no fucks about the size of my house, the car i have, or anything other than those around me are happy-ish.
I know.people from all.walks of life and think its a very mixed bag.

It's generally people starting thread or bitching behind people's back who have issues.

Are you jealous of the "middle class" or something?

the "mega-yacht" competition is something else too

Yacht manufacturers are making redundancies atm. They are big employers in the south west

Get shot of the “ class “ system then. Happy days!

Is this a “YOU” thing OP??

YABU,

I see the middle class good earners around me with scruffy kids wearing second hand stuff, proudly buying yellow labels and bringing small but nice token gifts to kids parties.

My kids school is in a really mixed catchment, and its the kids from the poorer areas who are having fancier parties, bringing £20 gift vouchers to parties as gifts and dressed/presented much more immaculately. They also tend to have expensive buggies etc.

Based on my experience, I'd have said that the middle class people I know aren't bothered about proving anything. Those who are struggling more financially seem to have more pressure to present more smartly and look respectable. I think that continues through to people who were brought up working class/poor but got themselves off to uni and into professional jobs as well- maybe that's more the deomgraphic youre thinking of? The difference in cultural capital seems to remain so maybe they feel more need to prove that they've made it?

As a WC person I have been deeply insecure about schools (will DC get teased for cheap uniform? Will their education suffer because I can't afford the trip to New York?) Cars (please start you old nail, because if I'm late for work I'll get the sack) kitchens (rec con washing machine has ruined the floor, and cookers on the blink, how can i fix this? ) and holidays (I'm a crap parent because we can't afford one). So I'd have to go with no.

Could not care less.

'Class' is a relentlessly tedious British fixation which isn't just confined to Mumsnet. It doesn't occupy a great part of my mindset.

@OneCheeryGreenHiker you sound very blinkered and maybe as pp have suggested you have a chip on your shoulder, "it's all right for them" mentality. People get anxious for many reasons about how they appear -in all walks of life. It's a double edged sword, not as easy as you think.

the more wealthy you are the more possessions you have to worry about. Look at how George Harrison had his house broken into and had to put layer upon layer of additional security in place to secure his property. Being rich does not immunise you from the fear of some drug-addicted ne'er-do-well breaking and entering to steal your possessions to sell down the pub for drug money.

How can you possibly believe that just because someone is on low income or minimal savings that they don't have pride or motivation to want to appear in a certain way to the outside world. That's how the expression Keeping up with the Joneses came about, people living in a street and seeing their neighbour with something immediately made them want that thing, even if they had to buy it on the never-never.

I am working class and generally quite anxious. I was more anxious when younger, my anxieties being mainly about maintaining employment, keeping a roof over my head and paying the mortgage and bills.

I imagine that middle class folk share similar anxieties, particularly in the current economic climate. But I do not know many middle class folk so I cannot speak for them.

I never worry about kitchens or holidays. Happy with my kitchen and do not go on holiday.

I wish I could say the same.
Unfortunately if you're WC, it's seems to be constantly pushed in your face (on here) by people desperate to prove they're part of a group better than yours.
From the 'kind' stealth judgement (perhaps they feel...) to the framing of their generosity ('fancier' gifts and parties) as something to prove, against the 'small and thoughtful' gestures of the MC. The fake self deprecation of 'their children are immaculately dressed, while mine are feral and scruffy' that really means 'we MC' care about the important things while they're obsessed with the shallow because....(insert stereotype reason of choice)
Being WC is absolutely a thing. It's shapes and often severely restricts quality of life and opportunity and I think class differences when it comes to equality of experience shouldn't be swept under the carpet by deciding not to acknowledge class at all.
But the constant stereotyping and sly put downs disguised as understanding do grind my gears.

Anxiety shows no bounds, it doesn't choose 'class.' That would be an ignorant assumption.

On here the 'poor' constantly go on about being judged so i would say it is best to realise not everyone can be put in a labelled box and people of all or any classes dont think the same?

I can remember reading studies suggesting that working class people suffer more from anxiety and depression. It would be interested to know about any more up to date research if anyone out there can enlighten us?

You've used quite a few of the examples from my post in here- I genuinely didnt mean it to come across as judgemental in that way, or as a put-down, and certainly wasn't trying to imply that MC people are too busy worrying about other more important things to dress their kids smartly etc. This is a thread which by the nature of the subject is going to end up full of stereotypes and (maybe its becuase they...) becuase of the subject matter!!

Having moved from a very MC area to the edge of an area which is pretty much in the lowest category in the deprivation indices, I've found the difference in culture between the areas genuinley fascinating, and very marked, especially looking at how spend and outward appearances seem to be prioitised so differently between the different areas.

Totally agree on the issues around lack of social mobility and class being something that cant just be brushed under the carpet as it can have such an impact on people's outcomes- I've been pleased to see my workplace starting to record data on our parental jobs when we were children to help it work on inclusion and diversity of different backgrounds. I guess the issue is its also a very difficult thing to define without reverting to those stereotypes, becuase fundamentally its the differences in culture which really make the different class groups distinguishable in the UK.

Does this include generalised anxiety/MH issues, or anxiety over money/lifestyle that spirals into depression? I knew somebody that was middle class (if categoriesed as such). Unfortunately their mental health did not improve, and things only got worse(definately no worries over a kitchen or a holiday; this person barely left the house). Do life experience and childhood environmental factors not come in it too (money does not make a difference with abusive parents for example). I feel it happens in all walks of life, and that there are so many factors and variables involved. Yes, some studies taking this all into consideration may tell more; we can only speak for what we see/experience.

If 'the poor' were not judged on here there would be no need for them to 'constantly go on about it', would there? To say 'constantly' is silly and hyperbolic. On some threads where people are insulted and stereotyped for their class or financial situation, some people come back and challenge the stereotypes and the judgement. And, shock! Some of those challenging are not even 'the poor' themselves! Decent people don't like to see others belittled and insulted for their life circumstances and will speak up. Those who don't like them 'going on' shouldn't judge and stereotype in the first place. As you say.

Keeping up appearances was always a working class thing when I was a kid. I remember the fashion for schoolgirls to wear white knee high socks. The girls whose mothers took pride in turning them out in pristine socks were working class. My mother couldn't give a toss and directed me towards my brother's cast offs. Then turned back to something more interesting, like the Guardian women's page.

Yes, I did use your examples, and it was perhaps unfair of me, as it looks like I'm directing this at you, when really your post was just recent and typified the things I struggle with.
I accept you meant no offence, but you nevertheless paint a picture of WC throwing cash about on thoughtless gifts, while MC people have done the better thing. I don't doubt you've seen examples of this, but its a very limited experience upon which to conclude that WC people do it because ...reasons.
If I said "The MC people bring small gifts that they've thought hard about to ensure the gift signals that they value ethically sourced, educational activities. They dress their children from charity shops because sustainability is cool at the moment, and they've adopted the word 'feral' as a badge of honour to show how out doorsy and unfrivilous they are. I think this is because MC people are desperate to be seen as doing the 'right' thing in line with everyone else so they're not judged"
If I said this, I'd rightly get something handed to me. And it wouldnt be a small thoughtful gift.

I don't think class anything to do with it.

Insecurity can come in many forms. I think what you are referring to is that many people are trying to project attain a certain standard of living and are preoccupied with doing so.

This the result of multiple factors. Since the 70's standards of living have risen a lot as a result of globalisation and the abundance of cheap goods so we have become used to more. In addition the Internet an social media bombard us with lifestyle aspirations all day long.

Maybe people you perceive as middle class are like me. Working class upbringing but have benefitted from things like free Uni education, rising housing market so that now I strive to give my own kids a standard of living I didn't have as a child.

People have always aspired to a better life, regardless of class. Poor people want to do better, some rich people might shun their parents wealth and pursue more worthy causes or want make their own way in life. I googled the expression "keeping up with the Jones's and it comes from a 1913 cartoon strip....it's not recent.

To be honest I absolutely agree that that's what MC people are going with their "small, thoughtful gifts", I don't there's any reason to "hand you" anything for making that statement!! (And would also agree about "feral" kids etc too- often also used with a falsely apologetic air while said child is misbehaving). I dont know many people who would find your statement remotely offensive, it made me smile becuase I can see the truth in it.

The party/gift thing has been one of the biggest culture shock things for me. Personally, I'd far rather come home from a party with a pile of small virtue signalling educational gifts than come home with £400 worth of large fancy-looking toys and/or gift cards (even more so when I know that a lot of the givers will be working long days for minimum wage and they've probably had to work for more than 2 hours to cover the cost of the gift once tax is taken off- adds to the awkwardness of the whole thing). Its clearly their choice to be so generous, but i do really struggle with that particular one, especially when the kids would have been happy with something smaller, cheaper and easier to store. I also hate feeling the pressure to spend £20 on something that the child probably doesnt want anyway, will probably break after the first use and then end up in landfill. Am really relieved that this year we're past the large party age and that one will start winding down!!

It was a study about diagnosed clinical depression (rather than general life stress)maintaining that more working class people are affected duel to issues like depravation and low self esteem etc.

I suppose "stress" is a rather nebulous term and difficult to measure and cross compare between social classes.

I’m very middle class and I’m not anxious about any of those things. 😂 But I don’t care what other people think of me. And I don’t live beyond my means so financially not anxious either, not about inheritance, not about school fees VAT. I can afford my lifestyle because I’m not faking it for other people. 🤷🏻‍♀️