Dentist said he'd report me

[Shmee1988]

So, my son is 13, he has adhd and suspected autism (awaiting assessment). Unfortunately his adult teeth have not grown straight at all. Some are almost twisted in his mouth and some have erupted on top of others. He was referred to an orthodontist 3 years ago. The wait list for NHS treatment is loooong and he finally had his first appointment yesterday. He is not thrilled at the prospect of braces but after alot of discussion he has realised its important and ideal to get it all done whilst hes still at school when some of his peers will also have them. The orthodontist did all of the Xrays and said he needs braces and qualifies for this on the NHS. He then turned to my son and said 'would you like braces?' to which my DS replied 'no'. The orthodontist then said he woukd need to see us again in 2 years time as my DS doesn't want braces so he wont fit them. I asked to have a private word with him and explained that part of DS sen is that he is very literal and that when he asked him if he would LIKE braces, he answered the question literally as if he was being asked if he would like to have to have braces and that he was not refusing treatment. He didn't care and told me that I need to start the referral process all over again and that it would be almost 5 years before he can get them fitted on the NHS due to the wait time. I asked him if I could have another word with DS so that son could explain he wasnt saying he wouldn't have them and he said no. He then went on to say that if I bought my son back and he still said he wouldn't like braces, he will report me. I thanked him for his time and left but I was so upset. Ds was upset and now that upset had turned to anger. Is he suggesting that advocating for a child to receive necessary treatment is akin to abuse if the child is anxious about it? Aren't all kids anxious about braces? I want to take this further and complain. Especially as my son will be almost an adult by the time his next appointment comes around. Opinions please? Thanks in advance.

No, that's not what I said at all. It was the PP who said the mother would help with the care. I'm saying a child needs to be motivated and engaged in their treatment to carry out the necessary care. A child who does not want braces, does not carry out the necessary care, is rarely compliant with say removal appliances and does not wear their retainers longterm.

Not to mention his appearance is being altered. That is something a child really has to want

And again maybe educate yourself re ND, the orthodontist most definitely needs to and should be reported. ND kids can come across very literal and meaning can be mistaken. The mother( who knows her child best) tried to explain this and was ignored. Not ok.

Also kids are kids and the vast majority need a lot of support and encouragement re brace and retainer care.

We've had this exact issue both for dental treatment and vaccinations. I argued that if DS didn't want to be there, there would have been no way I could have got him into the appointment. The fact he walked in by himself showed he wanted the vaccination (just panicked once he was in the room and saw the needles). Same with dental treatment.

Both times they accepted that and we got him treatment, even though we had to hold him down...

I would kick up a massive fuss, because there is an optimum age for orthodontic treatment and if he has to go on the waiting list again he might well miss it.

@FridayIsItFridayYet Both times they accepted that and we got him treatment, even though we had to hold him down...

I most sincerely hope that didn't happen OP......

Report to PALS and see if there is a dental governing body. I'm pretty sure the dentist has acted illegally by denying treatment to your son based on his disability. He has directly presumed that your son is able to express a correct opinion and taken his inability to do so as a choice not to.

In each circumstance, the clinicians and parents come to a decision as to how to deal with the refusal on the basis of pragmatism.

At what point did the dentist do this?

I'm with the dentist. Any treatment has risks and can be problematic, if your son refused treatment that's it. You could report the dentist for forcing treatment on him if there were complications in the future.

Sorry this has happened to you, the dentist is a bollocks. Literally noone in the world LIKES braces. They are a healthcare procedure!

The son didn’t refuse treatment .

18 months for an urgent tooth extraction? omg.

Your son is a minor. Why on earth is he asking him whether he would like essential dentistry? How bizarre.

The dentist dealt with the refusal with such "pragmatism" which is defined as
"an approach that evaluates theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application."

He wasn't sure of the ultimate success of the treatment so he withheld it.

That was his clinical judgement.

Ds wasn’t that keen to begin with and the consultant refused to proceed as he was not committed to cooperating but arranged a review appointment about six months later where we primed him to be more positive. The consultant was really frosty throughout but the orthodontists we saw for most treatment appointments were lovely but fearful of her. Suggest you call to do similar or ask the dentist who referred him to request it.

I don't know why you're completely missing my point. I understand the child was being literal. He said he doesn't want braces because he doesn't want braces. He might understand that in the long term it would be good, but he doesn't fancy having braces. Presumably he would grudgingly agree to them for the long term benefit.
This is not a good candidate for braces because people with braces need to be extremely motivated to have the braces including all the work involved in maintaining them and the lifelong commitment in wearing retainers etc afterwards. If someone doesn't really want them on every level, they shouldn't have them. They are not required in any way except aesthetic. He will be fine without them, and at higher risk of decay with them.

No decent orthodontist would rely on a second party (the parents) to maintain them. That's a disaster waiting to happen.
The patient must want them and be motivated to do the work themselves.

Because even children have rights, believe it or not. If it was a matter of life or death it would be decided in court, but it is not life and death. I was once involved with a child who refused insulin, we needed a court order to give it forcibly.

The dentist didn’t ask if he wanted braces. He asked him if he’d like braces, very subtle difference to you and I but not to a ND child. Who the hell would LIKE braces.

Exactly this!

Hi OP,

I think that if you were reported to social services, then it would go through what they call here "the MASH referral centre" and you could then explain and request that they forward you on to "targeted help" which is a group of people who could possibly help you sort this out.

So I don't think you need to worry about getting referred if you push on this. I think that would still be a route to getting it fixed. The social services referral process can work out well if you just explain what has gone wrong and why.

I was offered braces when I was younger for an overbite. My dentist explained it would make my teeth meet, but didn't really explain the pros and cons like you would do with an adult. I thought they would push my jaw out, not pull my top teeth back and so I said no. In hind sight dentist really didn't explain how they would work or the risks of not having braces! My teeth are at high risk of failing as an adult because they come out at such an angle at the top.
I wish my parents had asked more questions on my behalf!

Would you like braces with no follow up info is not enough to say someone consents or not

General Dental Council is the governing body for dentists. Like the GMC for doctors.

The dentist was highly in the wrong here. By wording the question as he did, he in fact REMOVED the opportunity for the child to give informed consent by refusing to give him a disability appropriate explanation of what he needed to consent to.

If a practitioner banned a deaf person from bringing a signer or banned someone from having an interpreter into their own language at the appointment, and then refused treatment based on their inability to respond, that would be illegal discrimination of the basis of disability or nationality. This is the same. Definitely complain to the practice manager and contact PALS for advice.

I my experience you dont need to either wear the retainer for the rest of your life or use interdental brushes while wearing braces. I get some people need to but not all.

FFS. asking a very literal-minded person "would you like braces?" is just absurd and invites the answer "No". You wouldn't expect it to be phrased like that even if, like me, you aren't literal-minded! If I needed dental work and my dentist asked "Would you like me to ... <whatever>?", rather than telling me that this was what was needed and asking if I agreed to go ahead, then I'd do a double-take and think he was either insane or didn't want the bother of doing the job.

Honestly it’s mad. My asd dd needed a blood test aged about 12. She’d had them before. She goes generally mute around professionals, anyone really. Nurse asked her this time, “x do you want a blood test?” Dd shook her head. Nurse then sent us away, refused to do the bloods. I questioned it obviously, told the nurse how ridiculous it was, dd is mute etc, but no … we had to go back another time to get them done. 😖😖

I my experience you dont need to either wear the retainer for the rest of your life or use interdental brushes while wearing braces. I get some people need to but not all.