Dentist said he'd report me

[Shmee1988]

So, my son is 13, he has adhd and suspected autism (awaiting assessment). Unfortunately his adult teeth have not grown straight at all. Some are almost twisted in his mouth and some have erupted on top of others. He was referred to an orthodontist 3 years ago. The wait list for NHS treatment is loooong and he finally had his first appointment yesterday. He is not thrilled at the prospect of braces but after alot of discussion he has realised its important and ideal to get it all done whilst hes still at school when some of his peers will also have them. The orthodontist did all of the Xrays and said he needs braces and qualifies for this on the NHS. He then turned to my son and said 'would you like braces?' to which my DS replied 'no'. The orthodontist then said he woukd need to see us again in 2 years time as my DS doesn't want braces so he wont fit them. I asked to have a private word with him and explained that part of DS sen is that he is very literal and that when he asked him if he would LIKE braces, he answered the question literally as if he was being asked if he would like to have to have braces and that he was not refusing treatment. He didn't care and told me that I need to start the referral process all over again and that it would be almost 5 years before he can get them fitted on the NHS due to the wait time. I asked him if I could have another word with DS so that son could explain he wasnt saying he wouldn't have them and he said no. He then went on to say that if I bought my son back and he still said he wouldn't like braces, he will report me. I thanked him for his time and left but I was so upset. Ds was upset and now that upset had turned to anger. Is he suggesting that advocating for a child to receive necessary treatment is akin to abuse if the child is anxious about it? Aren't all kids anxious about braces? I want to take this further and complain. Especially as my son will be almost an adult by the time his next appointment comes around. Opinions please? Thanks in advance.

I haven’t mentioned Gillick and he hasn’t been able to give or withhold consent because he hasn’t had reasonable adjustments to allow him to do so.

OP clarified this on page 6 at around 8:30. It was the dentist who said this but it was ambiguously put. You're not the first person to have read it in a way that's negative to the OP.

No, that's how the OP related the conversation to us. It was definitely the dentist who did the interrupting and said "you can't force him...."

(I'm not sure which way you understood it though, because as you say, you forgot to quote who you were responding to.)

This happened to several of my friends - all interestingly mothers of boys and NT boys - girls seem to have no problem consenting. I had a word with my son before his first appointment and basically told him that he must consent as to get braces on the NHS is a privilege as some authorities don't offer orthodontic treatment on the NHS.

I used to work in a dentist and unfortunately if the child doesn't consent the orthodontist cannot create a treatment plan - it is that black and white - but how many 14 yr old teenage boys really know what is best for them.

This is interesting to me as last year when my son was 7, we were at his dentist and the dentist said to him ‘And what do you like to drink the most?’ So my son said ‘coke’, the dentist was about to write this down that he mainly drinks coke when i said ‘No, you asked him what he likes to drink. DS, what is your main drink every day?’ And he said ‘water.’ He literally drinks only water not even squash but maybe once every few months will have a swig of my coke, which he likes. I was a bit concerned that they took the word of a 7 year old as gospel in response to a clumsily worded question.

I disagree. Dentists should explain the advantages of having braces - ours certainly did. My DS said he didn’t want them. Dentist explained what dental problems are likely to arise requiring work in future years if he doesn’t have braces. He strongly advised him to have them. DS then said OK.

But patients have to have the capacity to consent. Gillick competency is quite complex

Yes, do get your coat.
You know exactly what the OP meant.
Do you feel better now?

Your son has capacity to make the decision about the braces and so it is his to make, BUT it is part of the dentist's duty of care that he must receive any additional support he needs to reach it. You have correctly identified the communication issue whereas the dentist has simply ignored it: the dentist asked a silly question and got a literal answer. The question needs to be "do you give your consent to this treatment?" The result is that important treatment has been withheld because of the dentist's failure to communicate with his patient.

There are guidelines in the codes of practice addressing both communication standards and meeting the needs of patients with autism, and they haven't been considered at all.

Make a formal complaint explaining this and request a rescheduled appointment.

When I saw the title of the thread I was expecting to read that a dentist was threatening to report the parent for neglecting the dental health of a child by not seeking adequate treatment. Instead it’s the complete opposite. Mum is trying to prevent further harm both emotional and physical. And the dentist’s behaviour is likely to seriously impact the child possibly for years.
I really feel for you op and I hope you can manage to get the treatment for your son.
good luck

Yes you need to report this to someone. I dint think the dentist has behaved well. I suspect he / she just doesn't want to be involved..

*Littleblueridinghood · Yesterday 19:21
The dentist is following the correct consent protocol.

Isn't the poster agreeing with you that your son's dentist isn't following protocol correctly?

I no longer understand what the poster is/isn't trying to say. IMO Some of the posts are rather ambiguous.

This is why there is always a dental assistant in the surgery not only to assist, but to record what was and wasn't said/done.

At the end of the day the health professional has the choice, using their professional judgement, as to whether or not they provide treatment.

If the OP isn't happy then they are free to raise the matter with the practice or seek another (private) dentist.

Trying to second guess the dentists motivations isn't helpful.

After braces, you do need a lifetime retainer, to prevent teeth moving again

Well thank god this wasn't in place when I had mine.

Me: No

My mum: she's having them. End of.

Orthodontist: okay let's get started

know what? Mum was right. Obviously

Oh this happened to me and my daughter said no and I said yes she does. She got them and her teeth are perfect now. She was 11 it’s utterly ridiculous the way they go on now.

All these people who are saying the dentist was right, show me the kids who the dentist has confirmed do not need braces for any clinic reason, but BEG their dentist to give them braces because they are desperate for them as a fashion accessory or for comfort or some other reason!

I think you'll find that hard. No-one WANTS braces. They accept they NEED braces because they UNDERSTAND their dentists' clinical explanation of how and why their teeth will be helped by them. Because they UNDERSTAND the long-term benefit of braces, they put effort into LEARNING how to care for them.

The dentist's attitude, and refusal to explain braces appropriately to the child's understanding, has denied this child the opportunity to UNDERSTAND he NEEDS braces, UNDERSTAND the BENEFITS of them, and LEARN how to take care of them properly. This is blatant discrimination on the grounds of disability and is illegal under the Equality Act of 2010.

Please put this in a formal complaint to the hospital. The orthodontist was being a wanker.

I think it’s one of them you had to be there
ultimately the health care professional wouldn’t carry out a procedure against the patients will
if there is SEN then this should be documented previously so the dentist aware then it can be dealt with accordingly
sounds like nothing documented no official diagnosis as waiting assessment
tbh the dentist would be stupid just to take OP’s word for it risk litigation and potentially be struck off and lose the career

Thank god we now live in more enlightened times where children have rights over their own treatment 😳

Yanbu. I'd be making a complaint about 1. The lack of understanding around SEN and refusing to ask the question properly in a way your son would understand and 2. The threat to report you.

Here you are OP -

https://www.gdc-uk.org/raising-concerns/how-to-get-a-refund-or-make-a-complaint

Well, mum made the correct decision for me when I was not mature enough to make the correct decision for my long term benefit.

and I'm very grateful that as an adult I'm not having to pay thousands to have my teeth sorted.

parents make decisions all the time for their children that the kids don't want to do but that will benefit them long term.

I didn't much fancy going to school ages 7ish-11...mum still made me.

Same here. Infact because both of mine were purely for vanity reasons I was the kne asking do you really want the hassle of this.

As an aside, the water flosser has been the greatest gift to help keep them clean.

I thought the original Gillick case concerned contraception not life and death treatment?