School residential vegetarian/vegan only

[vgp1234]

My child had really been looking forward to their year 6 residential, but a new head has joined and had changed the format somewhat.

They have now booked a Sustainability Centre in Hampshire, which only caters for vegetarians and vegans. My child is not a vegetarian or vegan, and across the cohort of year 5 and 6 only one child is vegetarian.

While I appreciate that there is a view that they can go 5 days without meat and they should just suck it up, I find it incredibly frustrating that you would not ask a vegetarian or vegan child to suck it up and eat meat for 5 days. So I don't understand why we do not treat both dietary preferences with equal measure.

The new head is very keen on government guidance, and has changed our lunch menu to comply with the current guidance for school lunches which is that 3 days should include meat or fish (previously we had a meat and vegetarian/vegan option every day). However it seems this guidance only applies on the school site, so you can disregard it at a residential. While they are within their rights to do this, it does seem like quite a contradiction.

I have tried speaking to the Sustainability centre directly but they were very inflexible and just stated it is a against their ethos (may I add that they also offer a day trip at a cost to visit a working farm, who rear animals for meat, so their ethos does not run all that deep). This really goes against my ethos as not only do I think you should treat all groups equally, I can't help but feel that this is forcing their ideas on children verses allowing them free choice and the ability to hear both viewpoints (meat is unsustainable/sustainable) and make their own decision.

In all honesty I'm quite perplexed as to why the school choose the venue when it would clearly be controversial, as this is quite a personal choice for parents and the cohort has so few in it that have this dietary preference.

I'm sure some people will not agree with me, and I am open to your opinions as I'm a big believer in hearing both sides of the argument and our ability to think critically for ourselves and not be told what to think (I want this for my child too).

I do plan to send the school an email initially and request that they provide a rounded menu including meat. But I'd really appreciate any advice on how to word this appropriately as I'm quite upset by it, and I'd prefer to send a well worded email than an emotional one.

My youngest autistic son would really struggle with that cafe menu. He eats loads of fruit, some veg, and lots of meat. It would almost certainly exclude him from attending

My oldest autistic son would struggle with that menu for food texture reasons - he was fine at PGL, Outwards Bound (two x school residentials) and Scout Camp though.

for me the food looks lovely though

You ARE being confrontational by taking it up with the school, even although you think you're not.

Yes I agree with this. It’s also the vegan aspect that would bother me. My DIL is a lifelong vegetarian but gets really cross at the combined vegan/vegetarian options so often on offer in restaurants now. They are an easy tick box for the food providers but deprive vegetarians of meal options containing milk, cheese, eggs and even honey. If at the residential it’s a genuine vegetarian option being offered alongside a vegan option on the daily menu I wouldn’t have an issue. I think that’s probably unlikely though as they will just do vegan options to cover both bases. It’s only a week though so it depends how much your DS wants to go @vgp1234 I remember a school residential I went on (as a teacher) many years ago. The accommodation was in a Youth Hostel. Every meal apart from breakfast seemed to consist largely of celery. It was grown in abundance in the YH vegetable patch.

There's no reason for a vegan diet to be anymore 'fake' than a meat based one.

My child is not vegetarian but could go weeks without having meat, as long as the meals are nutritious I see no problem with this.

Sorry I think you’re being ridiculous. And I say that as the parent of a very fussy meat-eating child.

Starting with the false equivalence of forcing a veggie child to eat meat - you must know it’s a false equivalence. Your child isn’t being forced to eat anything that they or you have an ethical objection to - they’re just not getting meat for the duration of the trip. They must eat loads of vegetarian things day in, day you without even noticing it.

Vegetarian people don’t only eat vegetables- they eat anything that isn’t meat. Sounds like there’s a separate vegetarian option and not all vegan, so there’ll be cheese, eggs etc, as well as carbs like pasta, rice, potatoes etc and of course vegetables, pulses etc as well.

Your child might not even notice!

Please don’t be that parent

I do agree with you but for the sake of a few days it’s not worth complaining.

If it’s eco based, I doubt it’ll be full of fake meat as that’s not eco friendly.

The answer is so obvious, that it’s hard not to assume you are trolling. But on the off chance:

Vegetarians and vegans cannot eat meat. That could be because for ethical, environmental, religious or allergy reasons. It would be improper to force them to eat meat.

Meat eaters, on the other hand, can eat vegetarian food.

When catering for large numbers, it is usually easier to make food everyone can eat. And as others have pointed out, it is better to feed children vegetarian food than crappy, over processed, unethically raised meat, full of additives and preservatives - which is what mass catering often does.

And no, I’m not a vegetarian or vegan. I eat meat most days. I am also a good cook, so do not recognise the “vegetarian slop” a pp references as being the norm.

I think this is silly. Being a meat eater just means you do include meat in your diet. This way they are eating a diet everyone can eat, including meat eaters.

If you don't agree with the ethos of the centre that's another matter, and you can choose not to send your child. However, it would be pretty outlandish to make a fuss about feeding children food that they can all eat just fine anyway.

I actually can’t imagine what kind of preachy activities they might be doing - what do you think?

A vegetarian diet is no more likely to contain processed crap than an omnivore diet. Just look at what is normally considered to be kids' food.

I'm vegetarian and don't eat fake meat or other ultra processed crap. Back when I ate meat, I didn't eat chicken nuggets, sausages or other ultra processed crap.

Do all the posters getting hot under the collar about a vegan menu possibly containing, processed 'fake' food take the same level of interest in a mixed/meat based offers on residential trips? Did you worry about UPF and the quality of the animal products in the burgers or sausages?

Exactly

Have you actually looked at the food/menus available Op or just panicked at the thought of “a vegetarian diet” and something being “not fair”

Maybe ask to look at the menus and think carefully about what it is that your dd won’t eat because this sounds like you believe a vegetarian diet will consist entirely of vegetables.

Because the difference between a vegetarian forced to eat meat for a week and a non-vegetarian forced to eat vegetarian only options for a week is that the vegetarian is actively being made to eat something that they have given up or do not eat whilst the non-vegetarian will have many of their normal foods on offer (Pasta, chips,fruit, jacket potatoes,cheese, bread, soup, baked beans are all highly likely to feature) and will not have been forced to eat anything that they are against on principle.

So, if your dd is massively fussy and you think she will go hungry that week you could negotiate with the school over some healthy, non-meat snacks you could pack to keep her going but honestly you’re just going to make yourself look daft and a bit of a nuisance if you go in all guns blazing just because dd is being deprived of hamburgers and chicken nuggets for a few days.

I think if the school had opted to only provide veggie food at a venue that normally provided both then I’d agree with you that it’s unreasonable but in this case they’ve chosen the venue (presumably for the activities they can offer) and that venue only provides veggie food. If you go on holiday somewhere that doesn’t eat bacon/pork do you complain if bacon isn’t a choice or do you accept it as part of the culture/trip?

Vegetarians don't eat meat.
Meat eaters do eat vegetables.

Eating a vegetarian meal isn't forcing a meat eater to eat something they usually wouldn't/can't.

Has the trip already been booked/paid for? If not, just cancel/don't book.
The school can't please everyone, and I'm unsure what you hope to achieve by kicking off about it. Except maybe the school deciding school trips aren't worth the hassle and cancelling future years.

Because your children I would assume do eat veg, pulses, beans etc whereas vegetarian and vegan people don't eat meat ever. Bit of a difference.
Your children might actually get to eat something new and broaden their horizons, while being more ethical.

You are being silly. I can't believe you don't see the difference between requiring a vegetarian to eat meat/fish, and requiring a non-vegetarian to eat meals other than meat/fish for a few days. A vegetarian never eats meat/fish. A non-vegetarian in the vast majority of cases eats some vegetarian meals. A vegetarian avoids meat/fish on ethical/religious grounds (whether that is animal welfare or environmental or the ethics of eating animals at all) and eating meat/fish violates those principlies. A non-vegetarian presumably doesn't need to eat meat daily on ethical ". Or at least I have never come across this or know what any reasonable ethical position that says we should eat meat daily would look like!

As long as they offer a reasonable choice of tasty, nutritious food that is likely to appeal to kids I dont see the problem. Pizza and pasta can easily be vegetarian!

OP:

IF you have a moral, ethical, religious and environmental case which decrees that your child should eat meat then you can argue that.

But 'my child likes the choice to eat meat' is not the same as 'my child does not eat meat due to moral / ethical / religious / environmental beliefs'

Where would it end? Your child prefers cod but the only fish on the menu is tuna? Complain!

Your child only eats cod but they only serve sustainable fish so offer mackerel - would you be complaining?

We ALL eat plants of some kind - even inuit eat the semi-digested lichen contents from dead caribou stomachs.

Eating meat is not a 'dietary requirement'.

You are being ridiculous. HTH.

The more I think about this the more brilliant I think it is - and my daughter is autistic with pretty endless feelings on food. But in a group setting with all sorts of fun times with friends in a beautiful setting... I feel certain she'd find something to eat. They must have experience catering to children with all sorts of expectations.

It's really lovely that any child with religious restrictions (probably - vegetarian isn't necessarily the same as halal I don't think?) or a vegetarian diet can finally just participate along with everyone else without a fuss. It's a very strange take that you feel anyone should 'force' a child to eat meat just because yours does so?

I'd be curious to see the menu myself to get some ideas! I grew up pescatarian and currently we eat about half vegetarian at home (for sustainability / budget reasons) and it's always helpful to see more ideas.

Because everyone can eat veggie/vegan, not everyone can eat meat. It's the most inclusive option because I doubt very much your child is a lion or cheetah that relies on animal products for survival.

My son would be excluded from a trip like that due to having a limited diet for medical reasons but if he could eat a regular diet, I'd have no issues with it.

He can't attend residentials full stop due to medical reasons anyway.