To feel so overwhelmingly sad at the lack of ramps in UK shops and restaurants

[2024namechanger]

Inspired by the other threat (but not TAAT) my teen is a fairly recent full time wheelchair user. On holiday abroad we visited hill towns and the entrance to every tiny shop and kiosk had a ramp. Sometimes the shops were too small to get around once in, and sometimes there was a step within the shop, however my teen could always get in, so felt part of things.

The ease of Europe has really made me look at our nation in a different way. In our town there is one cafe which is accessible - it’s a former chain. Every other cafe has a high step. Almost every shop has a high step. And hairdressers, and nail salons. Meaning that our local town (quaint, no chains) is closed to her and she can’t get simple things like her mono brow waxed.

This isn’t about ‘understanding that our nation is old’ or disabled users needing to understand that they have to call ahead. It is about having a polarised society and it isn’t right. It could be easily addressed with a ramp to every shop. This is cheap to achieve, and is a reasonable adjustment.

Beaches in the UK are inaccessible - there are (I think) 5 accessible beaches. We would have to travel 3 hours to get to an accessible beach-two hours further. Also if you Google accessible beaches in the UK, so many beaches advertise themselves as accessible, but actually they mean step free access to the top of the sand. No means of getting close to the shore so they can sit on the sand with the rest of their family, or actually get in the sea. In France and Spain accessible beaches they are everywhere, and they mean accessible; boarded walks and beach buggies so a wheelchair user can actually get in the sea. And pretty much every walk in nature is inaccessible too. That’s nature, it’s one of those things, but I think it’s important to consider how small the world of a wheelchair user is - when you take away places which could accommodate them easily, they really have nothing left. Just the homes of friends who don’t have townhouses. Or a step. Yes you guessed it, we always host now.

And if you want to roll back even further, our pavements are a nightmare. Massive lack of dropped kerbs (I mean properly dropped. Round here they are lowered but not dropped) and the camber means it’s insanely difficult to push a teen/adult on a wheelchair. Impossible to self propel. Crossings are dangerous - even those designed to be accessible! Not every wheelchair user can travel in a car, not every wheelchair user needs a carer.

So to those posters who thought the other poster should just be calling ahead and ensuring restaurants are accessible - why is the default inaccessibility? Why can’t wheelchair users enjoy a carefree day shopping and then dropping into a nearby cafe for a drink or lunch when they tire? Why do wheelchair users have to awkwardly enquire whether there is a ramp?

Hopefully this hasn’t come across as a rant. I don’t mean it to be. I just wanted to share some of my observations as newly into the world of disability, in the hope that it makes some able bodied people think.

I refuse to shop in card warehouse because of how badly designed the shops are making them impossible to navigate with a wheelchair (or pram!)

I am intrigued where these accessible utopias are though! When we have been abroad we have generally found it much harder than in the U.K.

I completely agree and I'm glad you shared your observations. It's a shame the opening post of that thread derailed it so badly because the point was a good one. I can't imagine being unable to access such basic places as shops and restaurants. I take it completely for granted. Are there any organisations campaigning for better access? I'd like to support them if there are.

I went to a lovely pub in the Cotswolds recently with MIL in a wheelchair. Old pub, steps etc. They produced a portable ramp that worked brilliantly. I didn’t take details but he said they were not expensive and we might want to look into getting one.

Not saying that people should have to - unless they want to, but give it’s a cheap and temporary option you’d think more businesses might use such a ramp. It folded up into a sort of briefcase shape.

Disability rights always seem to be bottom of the pile - can’t be fixed by flags, lanyards or mindless mantras, I suppose.

I hear you, OP.

Is this a campaign @mnhq could get behind, I wonder.

I thought all shops etc had to be accessible ( I know some places have a temporary ramp as they can’t install permanent ones) How that works in practise I don’t know. I do think everyone should spend time with people with limited mobility to fully understand the challenges ( I have had my eyes opened due to doing this). I admit I didn’t fully appreciate how hard it could be…

That’s awful. I confess I took access for granted until I had a pushchair and then I saw how difficult even that was. And of course it’s much much harder for a wheelchair user moving around themselves. If everyone had to use a wheelchair for a day, I suspect we would design our world differently.

Where did you visit in Europe because Ive always seen it as being far less accessible than here. In particular toilets, given they barely have any functioning ones, either public or in cafes (see my other thread)

What always amazes me is in Madrid, they said they’d be inclusive and added small lifts to ALL stations. Prams, wheelchairs can get around. London they built a new section of Waterloo station and it didn’t occur to them to build a lift! Honestly its so unfair on people who need a lift.

Nerja in Spain has a fully accessible beach.

Playa de Burriana.
multiple ramps down to the sand. Concrete walkways down to the sea every 50m or so. Proper disabled toilets with space to get a wheelchair in.

https://www.tur4all.com/resources/playa-de-burriana-1

bloody amazing.

Ignore the YABUs by the way. They are probably the same people that think Teump is a reliable medical information source 😀.
I completely agree having lived with a wheelchair user. Its actually shocking how it hasn't improved at all. Supposedly much less developed countries are far better than we are.
They even removed tax incentives (reduced VAT) on costs to make buildings accessible as few years ago. There are virtually no grants available to help with making buildings accessible (though there are to green up public buildings - which is good but there should be both).

I know Madrid very well and they dont have lifts to all stations at all. It was a nightmare when we went one time and I had really poor mobility, lots of stations where you can get on with a lift, particularly further out out town and then the station you want to get off doesnt have one. Or not working as with Sol quite a lot of the time.

And dont even think about accessibility if theres a big do on like at Easter or other celebrations.

Yeah it’s very unfair OP.

This is very eye opening. It’s not something I really think about as much as I should tbh, but now and again I do notice a lot of inaccessibility generally in the UK including at train stations.

I worked for this Christian charity years ago and they were having these meetings for disabled people and friends at churches/buildings that were inaccessible. They got really defensive when wheelchair users pointed it out.

A lot of the buildings in our high street are very old and built before ramps were a thing.The few modern ones are flat step free. I have noticed that many of the shops have fold up ramps by the door. I understood this was the law. Have you actually asked these places if they have ramps?
It is not just wheelchairs that step free access helps. When our youngest was in a pushchair we went to a resort abroad that had an award for being wheelchair friendly. It was so easy with the push chair when crossing roads etc.

Plenty of European places, outside major tourist areas, have rubbish wheelchair access too unfortunately.
But look for Blue Flag beaches. Part of the scheme is that they have to have wheelchair access to the beach. It might not be obvious, but it is there somewhere.

Most parents have experienced issues of accessibility when pushing a pram/buggy - simple things like the width of doorways, even the direction of door openings etc. I suspect it all comes down to feasibility and cost, unfortunately. ☹️

I agree OP, as the mother of a child who will always use a wheelchair.
My personal bugbear is Liverpool Street Station- the lift is only able to carry about 3 people with a wheelchair or suitcases and serves the underground as well as the main station. How many times I could have cried waiting for it coming home from Great Ormond Street to see it repeatedly going up and down on the underground while the only fast train is about to depart.

You are so right OP. Reading your post has made me realise how much I take things for granted.

My dad now has to use a wheelchair and we don’t go many places due to his health (mostly the hospital and the barbers!) but we find these outings hard work. I’d never even considered accessibility to somewhere like a beach.

I'm hugely sympathetic. I honestly didn't realize until I had a pushchair and a mother in a wheelchair. I'd always made assumptions that London would be fairly accessible and was shocked at how many tube stations aren't accessible. I understand how hard it must be to retrofit old buildings and stations but I wasn't at all aware of the scale of the problem until I was living it.

I sincerely hope things improve. The ironic thing is that it's good for business to be able to get potential customers inside. As PPs have said, small portable ramps must be a cheap, easy solution for a lot of shops. Is there an app to be able to see which stores have them? If there isn't, someone should absolutely build one.

Would having a permanent ramp be possible in most shops? They would take up space on the pavement and be a trip hazard on potentially narrow pavements? Not playing devils advocate here, my DM was in a wheelchair that I had to push so I know the issues, but just saying’ every shop should have a ramp’ isn’t necessarily practical.

100% agree with you, this is what DEI should be about, not sexually and pronouns, but actual things which affect people on a day to day basis.

My colleague is a wheelchair user and is very often forgotten when it comes to accessibility. No thought goes into meetings, how will he get there, we are full time WFH, so vehicle transport, accessing the venue, lifts, toilets etc

It's as you say a very small world for people with disabilities and we should be doing more to change that. That's where money should be going!!

this is disgusting it makes me feel quite ashamed.i have seen a campaign on instagram about this but I can’t recall the name.
the lack of ramps etc also make these premises a huge fire safety risk i know that from being part of a consulting committee thing when i was at uni (related field).

I have a DS with a wheelchair and find the UK terrible but better than most of Europe, possibly not Germany, and parts of Spain. In my town most shops are accessible, little ones have ramps, and there is space, there are also a lot of cycling facilities so there are dropped curbs etc. it’s not perfect but far better than most other places we have visited. London is also one of the more accessible cities. Not perfect and not awful. But at least they try. Trains and lifts in stations are an issue. They break and yet the new stations are designed with lifts not slopes which is beyond me.

I do live in a place where people have sued shops etc a lot to get it to this point and they shouldn’t have to but having been observing access for 15 years it’s better than it was 15 years ago, but not quite as good as it was 5 years ago here. Now if someone can tell me where to go on holiday which will work I’m interested. Valencia and Berlin both worked well, other places less so, especially Greece, Italy, Portugal and surprisingly Switzerland

I thought the 2010 Equality act meant that shops were obliged to provide access to wheelchairs? I'm sure I remember a big push to ensure access back in 2010. It might not be possible to have a permanent ramp but temporary ramps should be available. Shocking to find that that's not the case. That is a really shit situation for your dd OP.

America or Canada? More modern buildings and stricter rules make for better access. The flight is a whole other issue though.
I remember reading "accessibility" can be provided by a at-door service, older branches of Boots often have a sign outside. As does my local petrol station. Its a cheap workaround, but othering.

It’s so unfair on those with accessibility needs.

Toilets being used as storage for cleaning materials so wheelchairs can’t fit in. Step free accesses being blocked off.
Huffs and puffs when someone needs access to a ramp.