To feel so overwhelmingly sad at the lack of ramps in UK shops and restaurants

[2024namechanger]

Inspired by the other threat (but not TAAT) my teen is a fairly recent full time wheelchair user. On holiday abroad we visited hill towns and the entrance to every tiny shop and kiosk had a ramp. Sometimes the shops were too small to get around once in, and sometimes there was a step within the shop, however my teen could always get in, so felt part of things.

The ease of Europe has really made me look at our nation in a different way. In our town there is one cafe which is accessible - it’s a former chain. Every other cafe has a high step. Almost every shop has a high step. And hairdressers, and nail salons. Meaning that our local town (quaint, no chains) is closed to her and she can’t get simple things like her mono brow waxed.

This isn’t about ‘understanding that our nation is old’ or disabled users needing to understand that they have to call ahead. It is about having a polarised society and it isn’t right. It could be easily addressed with a ramp to every shop. This is cheap to achieve, and is a reasonable adjustment.

Beaches in the UK are inaccessible - there are (I think) 5 accessible beaches. We would have to travel 3 hours to get to an accessible beach-two hours further. Also if you Google accessible beaches in the UK, so many beaches advertise themselves as accessible, but actually they mean step free access to the top of the sand. No means of getting close to the shore so they can sit on the sand with the rest of their family, or actually get in the sea. In France and Spain accessible beaches they are everywhere, and they mean accessible; boarded walks and beach buggies so a wheelchair user can actually get in the sea. And pretty much every walk in nature is inaccessible too. That’s nature, it’s one of those things, but I think it’s important to consider how small the world of a wheelchair user is - when you take away places which could accommodate them easily, they really have nothing left. Just the homes of friends who don’t have townhouses. Or a step. Yes you guessed it, we always host now.

And if you want to roll back even further, our pavements are a nightmare. Massive lack of dropped kerbs (I mean properly dropped. Round here they are lowered but not dropped) and the camber means it’s insanely difficult to push a teen/adult on a wheelchair. Impossible to self propel. Crossings are dangerous - even those designed to be accessible! Not every wheelchair user can travel in a car, not every wheelchair user needs a carer.

So to those posters who thought the other poster should just be calling ahead and ensuring restaurants are accessible - why is the default inaccessibility? Why can’t wheelchair users enjoy a carefree day shopping and then dropping into a nearby cafe for a drink or lunch when they tire? Why do wheelchair users have to awkwardly enquire whether there is a ramp?

Hopefully this hasn’t come across as a rant. I don’t mean it to be. I just wanted to share some of my observations as newly into the world of disability, in the hope that it makes some able bodied people think.

My husband is now a wheelchair user.

Our lives have become so much smaller.

Some places are brilliant eg National Trust/ English Heritage places with electric scooters that we can borrow for going off road. But our lives are ruled by whether or not there's an accessible toilet at the destination.

I think some places believe they are accessible when, in fact, they're not.
DH worked for an organisation who provided work and activities for disabled people, many of whom were wheelchair users. He never relied on a pub, for example, telling him they were accessible. He would go and check it out before booking. You'd be surprised at how many premises have a step into the building which the staff member seems to have forgotten about.

Really? I must have been very lucky and always been able to get out via lift. So sorry to hear you found it difficult and limiting.

Thanks for all the kind comments. To answer a few things - yes Spain is the destination I mentioned, and yes, the flight is another matter entirely!

In terms of pushchairs being similar, as a mum I pushed prams and double buggies. They are light and easy to push. A wheelchair containing an adult weighs a ton. My teen is weight managed and therefore exactly the perfect weight for their height - combined with wheelchair they weigh over 100 kilos. So you can’t lift up steps etc the way you can bump up buggies. Wheelchairs are also lacking in suspension - or at least the NHS one we have is! But - yes completely agree that a ramp would benefit pram users and those with reduced mobility too.

Ramps - yes a portable ramp costs £30. Some shops have signs saying they are accessible. When she asks, those working in the shop don’t know what they have on offer, and she was also lifted in once by a customer which she found embarrassing, and made her anxious about not being able to leave. She hasn’t asked since. Also, we need to consider solo wheelchair users. How do they ask? They’re stuck outside! Ramps take up very little space on the pavement; similar to a step. Most shopping streets are wide access; there is enough space. The ramps we saw in Spain were sometimes steep which I assumed was a space issue. Fine to get around though.

We visit several times of year and go all over the city and wider area by public transport, I can tell you tthat you were lucky that perhaps your small number of stations you visited did have working or open lifts that day, but its not the norm I can tell you. Neither is being able to get in and out of cafes and restaurants in their one toilet that you squeeze into.

Its one of the highest capital cities in the world and that also comes with a lot of hills, lots of cobbled areas, they also have a penchant for open tree bases without grates on them which take up quite a lot of pavement. My OH has fallen into them several times.

I mean isn’t it mostly and old vs. new thing? My Victorian house has steps to the front door, and I walk to the Victorian station with steps to the platform (and it’s not a busy enough station to put a lift in).

But once I get to a city, then it’s all fine. Lifts / ramps everywhere I want to go.

On the other thread that the OP has referenced, someone posted a link about HMV in the Metrocentre in Newcastle (?) and I looked it up, it was only built in the 80s. No way for people to get upstairs inside HMV to get to their bookshop section. You can go upstairs in a lift in the centre, but then you cant access that bit of HMV apparently

So although HMV wasnt opened until recently, the Metrocentre is what I would call modern but has been built in such a way that not all of the shops within it can be accessed without steps.

The ramps you need may take up very little space. Those with heavy power chairs need something considerably more substantial.

We were very impressed with the accessible beaches in Fuengirola. Wooden boardwalk fir wheelchairs, accessible toilets, they even have special, large wheeled wheelchairs to take disabled people into the sea. Not seen anything like this in the UK. https://turismo.fuengirola.es/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/240503-PDF-Fuengirola-accesible-en-ingles.pdf

This is something you don't appreciate until it matters to you personally. It's outrageous.

I'm ashamed I didn't notice before my sister was in a wheelchair. We couldn't access many cafes or restaurants. If we could get in, we couldn't squeeze the wheelchair in at a table. Uneven pavements made her yelp with pain. The bus service had two seats for disabled people at the front that were usually taken by people with shopping (or just ignorant selfish bastards). The other seats were three steps up. Disabled toilets usually manky. Everything was an argument.

When she had to go into a care home, the ramp -FOR A CARE HOME! -was so steep that it took real strength to keep hold of the chair. Other relatives told me they didn't take residents out for that reason.

It was physically and mentally draining. When people were kind and accommodating we'd often burst into tears with gratitude.

It is shameful how we treat disabled people in this country. Most of what is needed is a relatively easy fix. I agree with @Namechangetheyarewatching - this is where resources should be going. Stuff the rainbow pavements and workshops and focus on equitability and inclusion.

I sing and run a choir. There are so many rehearsal venues that are completely inaccessible. Makes me really cross.

And my GC go to a private school in a very old building - all I can say is thank goodness they have no disabled students! It is beyond belief.....

I completely agree with you. Sadly many people don’t seem to acknowledge these issues unless they are personally affected. But we are all vulnerable to illness and disability, it does not discriminate. We need to do better; stop paying lip service and actually increase accessibility so that it becomes the norm.

I remember going to the Glasgow University disability service not that long ago, and there were a lot of very steep steps to even get into the building! No ramp of course. Utterly ridiculous, I am sick of organisations pseudo commitment to inclusivity and accessibility.

They do have a ramp entrance on Gibson street so that you can access the Disability Service if you have to go there again.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/disability/contact/

@WelliesandWashing Thanks good to know, although this isn’t relevant to me anymore. It was quite a while ago. I certainly don’t remember any ramps at that time, but hopefully it is accessible to people now!

I agree.

The protection of historic buildings and the need for access often conflict. I live in a place where the entire town centre is a conservation area and loads of the buildings are listed, mostly grade II*. There are many pubs, cafes and shops that are inaccessible for wheelchair users, and at least two of the pubs that are wheelchair accessible don't have wheelchair accessible toilets.

I don't think a removable ramp would be much help in many of them, either. Because it's an old town, the pavements are narrow and the steps to shop entrances are often steep. A ramp suitable for wheelchairs would probably have to extend halfway across the busy high street to be accessible.

My parents lived in Milton Keynes, where the city centre is nearly all less than 50 years old. Everything is level, and access for people with disabilities has been designed in from the start. But I wouldn't want to see our architectural heritage replaced by similar development.

One of the biggest issues we find is “pavement furniture” making it like a slalom course trying to get down a pavement or forcing to use the road instead (if you can get up and down the kerb!)

Really? You think it is better to protect the architectural integrity of a doorway and leave disabled people completely unable to access? Ramps can be built, pavements widened. Or even, pavements lifted if the architectural integrity is so important, and then have specific ramps to get onto the pavement.

My teen has also lost their school through inaccessibility. I’m not asking for the world to change… just doorways…

YANBU. I consider myself very fortunate that both my nearest city and the suburban town I live in are very accessible. I have found out the hard way that this is not the case everywhere. I lived somewhere else for a couple of years and had to use long work around routes to get where needed.

I’m reluctant to travel much in the UK because you never know. I visited a “bucket list” destination (for me) and could hardly get in anywhere

I wouldn’t say that European cities outclass us though. Rome was very difficult. Followed the wheelchair symbol in a station to be met by two flights of stairs ! I’ve not been to Paris city proper but I’ve heard rumblings that France in general is not that progressive when it comes to disability

I hear you too, I have a child who is in a wheelchair and so many shops/cafes etc are difficult to access and are a nightmare to navigate once inside.

Also talking of coffee shops. Me and my friends had a preferred coffee shop in the city, that we used to get take out from. We asked them to get a ramp and they said they didn’t have to because they could only seat a certain number and so were exempt. I was quite taken aback because to me it seemed like “we don’t have to make reasonable adjustments so we won’t” clearly they didn’t want my custom

yorkshire and Northumberland most beaches have ramps and are disabled accessible- I am disabled myself so notice these things - utter rubbish at only having 5 in the uk! 🤣

But it's not just doorways that need changing for places to be properly accessible.

Narrow or winding corridors, uneven floors, internal steps, absence of lifts to other storeys, crowded tables or shop displays, incorrect toilets, parking too far away with insufficient room... All of these are barriers to accessibility. And that's only considering those who have access needs around their mobility. Not even thinking about what you'd need to make things properly accessible for those who are visually or hearing impaired for example. Or those who have toileting problems or those with special needs.

Realistically, making everywhere truly accessible for everyone would require a wholesale rebuild of most of our towns and cities.

If access was as simple as “wider doorway” it would be easy but in reality it isn’t that simple sadly and it’s not possible to make everywhere accessible.

I am lucky DS school is modern enough build to have a lift (when it works!) so he can get around. That doesn’t remove all the barriers he faces to education but it certainly helps.

I work in a primary school built in the 1800s. MOST of the building is accessible and we have done what we can but the nature of the building means the only way possible to make it fully accessible would be to totally demolish it and start again which really isn’t an option!

Thank you to those posters who have pointed out that accessibility is so far beyond a widened doorway. You’re completely right. I’m coming from the perspective of - if she could only get in a little that would be a huge difference, and would save current situation of waiting outside whilst friends browse. There are some places that she can access where she couldn’t access the toilet. For her it’s a start and means she can still go, just must be prepared. Obviously not everyone can hold it for long periods.

@Nearly50omg thats great! Perhaps you could share the knowledge instead of putting such a snidely post? I was going from the list on the AGE UK site.

It's often a bit more than having a temporary ramp though, isn;t it ? no use having a ramp if the door frame itself is too small to take a wheel chair....