to be annoyed that yet again eastenders used the expresion"epi"

[2shoes]

bianca was telling her dd of and used the expresion and roxy used it the other week.
can't the scrip writers think of a better word to use??
dd has epilepsy and so does dh. and I can assure you it is no laughing matter.

By 2shoes on Wed 04-Jun-08 12:29:16
"2shoes Ds here, age: 16"
I'm sorry to say this and i will attempt say this in the nicest way possible. i have been dealing with people like you my entire life and i am really getting sick of it!
if you think it's OK that's your opinion (it may be wrong but it's yours) BUT posting on a site like this were you know people have kids with disabilities that is just not smart!
here's some advice:

KEEP IT TO YOUR SELF!!

word like "Spaz, Eppie, Retard, Mong"
have no place in civilized society and should become Taboo.

(IMO)

sticks tongue out

"2shoes DS has left the building!"

Well said, 2shoes' ds!

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."

I don't think anyone is arguing that language doesn't affect thought and attitudes rebelmum1. In fact, that's sort of the point...

It's really not that hard to say 'tantrum' when someone is having a tantrum is it??

Well Edam, although I'm equally appalled by the use of the term 'to have an epi', the schadenfreude streak in me is glad that now you will feel how completely astounding it is to me that somebody will defend with equal boldness the use of the term 'to have a paddy'.

You keep saying there is no link. There is no proof. THere is as much proof as there can be.

Can you prove a link between 'to have an epi' and epilepsy any more conclusively than one can prove a link between 'to have a paddy' and The British perception of the Irish dating back to when the expression came in to use??

What does it mean to talk of etymology? Does etymology fly in the face of all reason and all likelihood that there is a link!!?

NOT to mention that in addition there is NO other plausible origin of the expression.

BOD, the expression is used with complete thoughtlessness in the UK. People who use it don't mean to offend. They don't notice the link. But isn't it interesting how the expression is used in UK but not in Ireland?

While I totally understand the view of those with children whose disabilities include epilepsy, I think using words to mean something else (eg epi to mean make a scene, bedlam to mean complete chaos) and not as an insult is slightly different to using terms related to disability or race as an pure out and out insult (spaz, mong, paki etc), which are always wrong I think.
I have never used the word 'epi' - never occurred to me, not my kind of vocabulary and never would be, not least because I wouldn't want to offend, but I can see it could be seen as different. Not least because most people with epilepsy would not consider themselves as disabled, I would guess, and quite a few people with epilepsy don't appear to find it offensive. I think most educated people wouldn't use it though, and that's a good thing.
Also, while I agree that we must listen to people and be sensitive with language that offends people by appearing to denigrate what is an intrinsic part of what they are (eg their race, sex, disability), especially when you KNOW people find it upsetting, I think the argument that if a word is found offensive by one person then it just IS offensive and nobody must ever use it is a bad one though. Using the word 'fit' to describe a fit of temper has really nothing to do with epilepsy, and I will continue to use idiot, moron, bedlam etc when relevant.
And EastEnders is crap!

I know what you are saying, and I agree that epi is quite distasteful, but do you think nobody should say 'fit' when they mean an outburts of temper?

Surely there are loads of terms as offensive as paddy - eg welsh on a bet, dutch courage... I think they are OK though, as they are no longer associated in people's minds as genuinely derogatory of real people, surely? They have acquired an entirely separate meaning of their own.

Oh right Fio, I was interested in your take on it and tend to agree with you. I have just found out that 'bugger' is supposed to derive in a very roundabout way from Bulgarian!!

"Surely there are loads of terms as offensive as paddy - eg welsh on a bet, dutch courage... I think they are OK though, as they are no longer associated in people's minds as genuinely derogatory of real people, surely? They have acquired an entirely separate meaning of their own. "

is it not "welch on a bet"?
regardless i'm not sure people use them in a derogative manner anymore in the same way i've been called a "fucking paddy" by at least one stranger every time i visit England when they hear my accent.anyway i largely agree with you as i think for the most part it is all about context. i don't find it offensive just amazed at peoples ignorance. i don't however attribute the same ignorance to a friendly barman/shop assistant who upon hearing my accent will inquire "you a paddy?" in a friendly way or jokingly go "not another paddy" and share a laugh as it is obvious they mean absolutely no ill will.
much the same as i don't believe white teenagers/20 year olds, who have grown up with black friends and listening to rap music and watching black comics and movies, are racist if they use the term nigger in the modern sense.

Msdeameanor, it's not paddy that is offensive, it's the expression 'to have a paddy' as that means to have a tantrum.

It dates back from the time when the Irish were looking for home rule, and to deny them Home Rule, first, the British politicians and satirists of the time had to mock them. There were cartoons printed in Punch at the time depicted the Irish politicians as bad tempered drunken apes.

A person may be an etymologist, and may not a lot more about most words and expressions than the average person. But no one person can understand the history and origin and background behind every single expression.

Personally, I don't care much if people use the term 'to have a Paddy'. What offends me is denying the obvious link. It so totally disregards such a large and relevant-to-the- point part of Irish history.

The word Paddy on its own does not offend me. Oy Paddy! It's a bit like when Eric Cantona just LAUGHED out loud when somebody said to him in a sneering voice "you're french". Mais oui. It may offend some people though, so I would be careful where I used it.

I don't think you should sensor the english language it's the connotations and intention that is the issue. If someone wants to insult you they will.

I reckon if you asked everyone to come up with list of what they deem offensive nobody would be able to say anything. Why can't you just say shut up that's offensive? Or switch it off if it's on the TV. Or get rid of your TV.

More sense than banning words and censoring thought.

Are you saying that we shouldn't have the right to say what we please?

I agree Paddy is quite likely to derive in some way from Irish people, perhaps they were seen to have a quick temper - redheads certainly are! And I'd NEVER call an irish person a Paddy. It would simply never occur to me to do it. But I suppose I might say, 'it's only a paddy' about a tantrum(though I never have!) and I would never associate the term with derogatory feelings about Irishpeople.
It's definitely welsh on a bet - the English had low views of Welsh probity! (and Dutch honesty, and French morals...)

"But I suppose I might say, 'it's only a paddy' about a tantrum(though I never have!) and I would never associate the term with derogatory feelings about Irishpeople"

ah yes but when if i were to do the same to black friends with the word nigger it is without any derogatory i'd imagine many people would tell me this is unacceptable.
yet paddy is fine?because somehow black slavery was better than the english ruling over irish?
personally i have no problem with either if not used in a derogatory context.but i am amazed by english people who will speak out against the inherent bigotry/racism/sexism/etc of certain words but apparently "paddy" is harmless.

Absolutely Rebelmum, People can say whatever the fcuk they like and insult whoever they like, but they may well lose the respect of other people in the process.

From a detached, historical viewpoint, I would expect somebody to be able to listen to and appreciate the origin of the expression.

Perhaps it is unrealistic of me to expect people who haven't studied this section of Anglo-Irish history to 'get' the link. Or perhaps they just don't care enough to take it on board.

Carry on using the exprssion 'to have a paddy' when you mean tantrum if you like. But don't try to defend it!!! THAT's my point. As that brushes over an hundred year period of anglo-irish history.