To consider staying together for the children

[DogsRock100]

Ok bear with me. I know the standard response is separate and never do this. However my children mean the absolute world to me and they are 8 and 9. I am not working currently and obviously I would get a job asap, but I’m really concerned about the financial implications for them of having to split the money and not being as financially comfortable. I also have to drive them to school so I don’t feel as available for work as I would ideally want to be as a single parent. The key thing is the reason we need to split. He struggles with mood swings - he can be great most of the time. Now and again, his anxiety and low mood comes on and he is grumpy, agitated and defensive (I have wondered if he is neurodiverse which may affect it too but I don’t know). I personally can’t forgive this as he says things that are below the belt. I wouldn’t want the children to live in a home where they hear this, but generally he is able to control it for their sake. If he stops being able to do this around them as they get older, I know I need to make the decision. But in the meantime, they do love their dad (even if now and again they do notice he’s being really grumpy that day) and we can be a functional couple - loving even - a lot of the time. Does anyone have any advice? I guess part of me is still hoping he will fully appreciate he is the one with the mood and behaviour issue and somehow work on it, but the problem is he persuades himself it’s other people’s fault or it’s just normal etc. Is it ever a bad idea given the circumstances to hold off a few more years? I’m thinking if we coparent, if doesn’t solve the problem at all and if anything I feel like I can’t make sure he isn’t unreasonable - plus he is really disorganised and makes decisions based on what he wants to do, so ‘his’ days would be difficult with no homework done/late bedtimes for example, I worry about their social plans and teeth etc. Isn’t it better for me to be there to keep an eye and support them? Difficult!

It's a difficult one OP and only you can decide! All I can say is that my DF was moody and I think spending my childhood accommodating that contributed to some very poor relationship choices later in life. I got there in the end, but treading on eggshells and enduring lengthy periods of dark days made me feel that this was perfectly natural and acceptable at home. I love him and don't blame him, and he mellowed with age, but the damage was done I'm afraid and it took me half a century to reverse it.

The blaming other people for his behaviour is the big issue to me. We can all have moods, especially if we’re stressed. Parenting is stressful, working is stressful, the rising cost of everything is stressful. I think you need to have an open conversation with him about it. If he’s willing to take responsibility for the things he does, even if sometimes he can’t help it, then I think it might be worth trying to make it work. Eg if he says sorry for being a grump, and he knows he’s disorganised but will try to do better, then it’s worth a go. If he persistently refuses to take responsibility and blames other people then that’s just fundamentally not okay and I think I’d be looking to leave.

It's a question of which damage is worse than the other. What can you live with. It's never fair to stay for the sake of the children. Think about what that means.

The reality is that children generally have better outcomes with two parents in the home. With the exception of abuse I do think it’s best to try counselling and absolutely everything to be honest before considering separating a family. The grass is not always greener.

Look, if you know that your DC are growing up learning that relationships are dysfunctional then yes you need to leave.

If he is grumpy and saying to the DC “I’m sorry, it’s no one’s fault it’s just me” then maybe just maybe it’s worth trying to work through.

BTW some of us are lone parents, work full time and make it work so don’t stay for that reason. Many of us do it.

My parents stayed together in an extremely dysfunctional relationship and I remember wishing many times that they would separate. I was in such a hurry to get out of that situation that in my early twenties I walked straight into an emotionally abusive relationship (e.g. 'moods', sulking, silent treatment, aggression towards objects etc, controlling behaviour) and stayed for 20 years before leaving. Apparently we are hard wired to seek out relationships whose dynamics are familiar, even if in a damaging way ( I was always horrified after realizing I had basically married my mother...) It is tough being a single parent, but my children and I deserve more than anything to live in a place of peace and safety. I found individual counselling (with someone with experience in dealing with abusive relationships) invaluable in coming to my decision. One of my major reasons for leaving was that I could see the way the relationship was impacting my small children - walking on eggshells, appeasing exdh's 'moods' etc.

I’m so sorry. I’ve been there. When my DC were 15 and 13 and both battling horrific anxiety themselves my oldest had the courage to tell me the impact living with him had on her. His moods, his selfishness, his drinking.

I chucked him out that day.

I work full time now and bought him out of the house. He had no interest in having the DC overnight and so never has.

I will never, ever regret my divorce. The damage being in that situation did to our kids was appalling.

I’ve found this too, it’s massively affected my adult relationships to my detriment and I am absolutely hyper aware of shifts in mood and behaviour around me.

Only you can decide OP. Often people are very quick to tell you to leave. In your situation I’d lay the groundwork now, find a job even if part time. Get some therapy for yourself. Start establishing your independence. Build your social networks. Keep reevaluating but be careful you don’t drift into the teenage years and then you can’t leave and disrupt GCSEs etc. It’s a difficult balance, if you seperate you will lose control over part of their lives but you may find as they are older they prefer to stay closer to you if his moods are that unpleasant. Try not to think too much about the small practicalities like being available for the school run. When I made this decision it felt lose lose and I sat on the fence for years while I quietly built myself up.

I wholeheartedly agree with the no regrets. Would make the same decision every time. I feel that my ds' anxiety is at least in part owing to witnessing his father's bahaviour.

Great advice!

I would be willing to work through relationship problems for the sake of my child but only if that truly worked for me in the long run as well. That would be my version of "staying for the children", not faking being happy.

These are all really fair points. My ideal outcome would be for him to get help and work on why he gets like that sometimes, but he doesn’t want to be to blame and can’t seem to process exactly what is being said when he is in that frame of mind. I was looking into ADHD and wondering if it could be that, which MIGHT give hope in the sense of meds, but I don’t know if this is false hope I’m trying to give myself. He takes sertraline so he is aware he struggles with anxiety or low moods but he didn’t tell me at the time, I saw it and asked. Which was strange as I would be really supportive about it. I guess I have a really difficult decision coming up, made so hard by the fact we do have lovely days - the majority - and also I am so aware we don’t really know what someone is like as an ex and coparent until it happens. I know some great coparenting situations and some awful toxic ones which are really hard!

OP, two things from your posts.

‘now and again they do notice he’s being really grumpy that day’ and ‘he doesn’t want to be to blame’.

Your children should not be walking on eggshells and living with someone in denial.

At least he needs to get proper help or he has to leave. The children would be better off emotionally if they are poor but comfortable at home than have more money in the household but living with him.

I think it depends on what you're prepared to put up with. If he's in a bad mood every now and again, I don't think that's necessarily a deal breaker - none of us are cheery 100% of the time and we all have stress to deal with. Work, finances, elderly parents, loss, getting older - all these things are going to have an effect on mood now and again.

If however, his being in a bad mood means the rest of you are tiptoeing around him, walking on eggshells then that is a problem. If he's shouting/name calling/blaming you for his bad mood, that's not something anyone should have to put up with.

OP, my marriage was extended by many wasted years from my ability to relentlessly hope, against all the information which showed me this outcome was very unlikely. To hope he’d change, work on himself, things would be different when this happened or this got easier. I think you have to deal with the reality of the behaviour, not the hope of change. It doesn’t sound like the solution you hope for is realistically on the table but you are the best one to assess that. My experiences may be influencing my view but in the cold reality of hindsight, my stbxh was never capable of the kind of introspection and behaviour change I hoped for.

@DogsRock100based on your latest comment I would say there is hope. He is obviously aware that he has issues to go and seek help and take sertraline but… that normally starts at a very low dose and you titrate.

Respectfully getting him a diagnosis may not solve your problems. He needs to buy into managing his moods and feelings. I really dislike the whole parallel between neuro and difficult men. Is that really the problem? Or is he just a moody twat?

But I also echo growing up with that sort of man. It took me years to not seek out the same thing in order to feel normal and on reflection my mum should have left when we were small. They then divorced after 30 years! I still have issues with making everything nice and walking on egg shells with people and that’s not normal.

Not having money isn’t great granted but no one is stopping you from building a new life and being happy. Start building your happiness for you. Would the threat of this and showing him your moving towards independence be a rocket up his arse?
You only have one life….

I would. I’d do almost anything to avoid breaking up my children’s family unit.

Kids pick up on more than you think. My sister and her husband tried to cover it up for years but their kids understood exactly what was going on, and it affected them. Eventually, sis moved out and one child went with her, with the intention other child would stay with her husband. Within 3 weeks, both kids were living with her.

Can you give your reasons as to why?

I think this is why it’s so important to choose your partner very very wisely and NOT based on “if we work on XYZ, this will be perfect” or blocking out, say, 20 days of the year, but the other 345 are good. IF those bad days are bad enough of course for it to raise major concerns - no one is going to be happy and in a good mood all of the time. In fact my advice is to base your decision on your worst days. Having said all this…we are where we are now. I won’t get this chance again to pick the father of my children, so there is no lesson learnt here or redo. It’s now a case of is it better to focus on the good times and manage things on those bad days. OR is it best to separate - but knowing those bad days will still be there for him, and we’d be co parenting so I wouldn’t even be there to manage things when he gets in that mood on “his” days?

There are certain things I could tolerate for the sake of keeping a family together, but I couldn't tolerate living with a moody fucker. Having a fairly even temperament is up there as a non-negotiable for me.

If you are determined to stay and I am not a supporter of wives being the therapist for their damaged husband, maybe this might help with the depression. Amen clinic has scanned over 300,000 brains, they start nutrition before they add in meds for depression https://www.amenclinics.com/blog/8-mood-foods-that-fight-depression/

The whole website is interesting and worth a read if you are rescuing your husband.

But if he is pissed off with work, it stops on your doorstep, he doesn't bring that shit into the house. He is selfish because he doesn't care how his children see him. I wonder if he knows how they would describe him as a Dad which would include grumpy? No, none of us are in a good mood all the time but you can choose how you portray that. We have all slapped a smile on our faces when we feel dreadful because our children need that or work needs that or whatever.

Not an easy one. Can you pinpoint what triggers this anxiety, would a change of job for him for example reduce or eliminate this?

I agree about finding yourself a job.

No, it’s not specific job related. I think it’s either he struggles with low moods sometimes or has some kind of neurodiversity going on - it does feel like he isn’t processing things properly, or getting defensive and agitated over things rather than being able to deal with it calmly. OR it’s just his personality and some people can be lovely the majority of the time but then have a different side to them as well when they feel grumpy. I was hoping to try and work this out with couples counselling but I had a quick chat with a therapist and she felt it wouldn’t help - she basically said someone has to acknowledge their issues, and not just sometimes agree and other times get defensive and all “you can’t put the blame on me”. And they also have to want to work hard on change, rather than me trying to improve it and them just going along with it but not really accepting it’s essentially them causing the problem.
The points you’ve all raised above are all so valid and I genuinely worry about any impact even if I do my best to make sure the children don’t see the times where it feels tense - I know it’s really hard to put a front on especially when they get older though. The main issue with separating though is he will be a coparent and they will still be around him lots for the foreseeable? So it doesn’t remove that aspect, and in a way makes it worse but also the impact emotionally on them of the divorce etc?

OP there's another possibility, which is that he is emotionally immature.

My first DH was like this too. It never got any better, partly because relationships get set in stone and he was perfectly comfortable behaving like a twat in ours. Years later, when we were able to be on speaking terms again, he said he grew up more in the year after I left him than he had in the previous 38 years.

Edited to add: He might grow up a bit when looking after the kids, because so much more depends on it -- he can't just leave their emotional welfare to you entirely, or it will affect his life too (poor relationship with them).