Why bother being nice/doing the ‘right’ thing?!

[Blinkingbother]

I’m late 40s. Brought up to be kind, courteous, decent, fair….. I don’t think this has done me any favours and now I feel I’ve f-d my children over by teaching them the same values.I know, I KNOW(!), if we all lose our values then what the hell’s left but I’m starting to think I’ve massively disadvantaged my kids by teaching them to be decent human beings. Someone tell me I’m wrong and what possible benefit I’ve given my kids by educating them to be ‘valued members of society’….

I was thinking this yesterday. I think I made some mistakes in bringing my girls up to always 'be kind' 'support those who are struggling' etc. Both mine ended up in year 2 (oldest now year 5, youngest year 2) being put with the child in the class who needed the most support, but who may at times lash out at them due to their additional needs. This happens because they are smart, hard working and kind, and are/were the only one in the class who didn't make a fuss when paired with them. My oldest would get repeatedly hit, and when I raised concerns with the teacher it was all 'the other child can't help it and your child is such a good influence on then etc'. I kept complaining without sucess. Until this child smashed my oldest head into a table, she decided enough was enough and refused to go until school until could be moved seats, and became much more 'feisty', to which I then got complaints from the teacher that she was 'rude' as they weren't used to this version of her. I thought I had done better with DD2, until I now see sane pattern. And DD2 is just so inherently kind that it's hard to change that pattern 'if I don't go with X no one will and then she will be all on her own and very sad so I will go with her'. I don't want her to lose that kindness, but it's how to teach her to do that whilst putting herself first?

I should’ve just told them to do & take what they want and tell them to advise anyone else to shove it🤷🏼‍♀️

No, you should have taught them to be polite and kind without teaching them to be pushovers, people pleasers or martyrs. Tbh there's a bit of a dramatic, martyred tone to your posts. Did your parents teach you to be what you have taught your dc to be? It's hard to escape that kind of training and avoid passing it on, I expect.

The harsh reality of the People Pleaser.

It's so often worn as a badge of honour. I've seen it on here and I have known people who pride themselves on how much better they were than others for always putting other people first, always being available to help, always taking on the lions share of work, always...

Who then feel very aggrieved when other people don't behave the same way towards them.

It's often perceived as unkindness, or just not being a decent person when, in reality, those other people are decent people, they just have boundaries and sometimes say no.

My children (adults now) have always been decent, jind and compassionate but I also brought them up to know their own worth and have boundaries. And to do good because they are decent people not because they should expect something back from it.

You can be nice and kind and still have boundaries. You have brought them up to be people pleasers rather than nice and kind. The 2 things are very different

Google 'Saviour syndrome' and ' Being a rescuer' . Its very enlightening.

This thread is funny.

If you’re too nice you’re a weak people pleaser and the problem is you and your boundaries. You are probably resentful as well, sort yourself out!

If you’re nice in the expectation that people appreciate your niceness and reciprocate it, you’re actually a terrible person because you’re not being nice for the sake of it. Be nice!

Lots of posters making these comments describe themselves as very nice/ kind whatever but with perfect boundaries and are also bringing up dc with the perfect combination of niceness and boundaries. It would be good to know what that actually looks like in practice, seeing as though apparently many of us are getting it wrong. Why don’t you be nice and give us some pointers? 😁

I couldn't love my children, at least not fully, if they were not good people. And don't we want everyone to be a good person?

For your kids Op, sounds as though they can't see the cost of their actions upon themselves. They need to be aware of this .

If you travel 10 miles at 35 rather than 30 it will save you 17 SECONDS. If you travel ten miles at 84 mph rather than at 70 you will get there 1 minute sooner. I often smile to myself as someone roars past me on the road to my nearest city. I know very well that, when I pull up to the first set of red traffic lights on the outskirts, they will be right in front of me and will have achieved nothing. It's very calming

It's never too late to turn your kid into an arsehole.

Why would you care if they get where they are going a little bit quicker than you. You know how long it takes to get from a to b and you take that into account when making plans. Most people dont drive like that (if they did the roads would be like wacky races) so I wouldn't get so worked up thinking its everyone else and you are the lone good driver.

Ok, I have lived in my town for 9 years and really made an effort with people but was very conscious not to impose, even with a chat that they may not want. I have been friendly but giving people space etc. I have had dc and been taking them to school for a few years now and we still don’t have a ‘community’, local friends…

Meanwhile, a mum who started renting a house on our street, has managed to get one of her neighbours (a single man) to babysit/ look after her two kids- take them to bike rides, draw with chalk on the pavement together and whatnot, managed to get a school mum to drive her to town centre on regular basis, and take her kids to their first school here for her, while she lived a bit far, and then moved her children to the better school (was oversubscribed, so not sure how) where her other neighbour is taking her children and now that neighbour is driving her one child to that primary and her other child to the secondary in next town every morning (think that person works in education/ local authority), as her own children go there to. It doesn’t seem to be carpooling as the neighbour in question is not a driver. She has spoken behind peoples backs a lot whenever I had chats with her, she’s also often blanked me in favour of other people (with more to offer) when out and about, and doesn’t come across as genuine person with integrity.

Shes ended up with ‘a village’, while I’ve only got a few people who occasionally say hi in the local area.
So, I do think you’re right in that you’ve got to be a bit of CF it seems, and then you get more.

And you don’t think it’s your own obvious bitchiness towards a woman who appears to have done you no harm that may have stopped you from gathering a ‘village’?

I am not being bitchy. I've watched this woman being two-faced and speaking behind people's backs, and I can see how she uses others. She boasts about receiving free new knits for her kids from the grannies at the church she joined, even though she's not religious. Then, she sells them on eBay and Vinted for profit.

You haven't met her or me, and I'm not sure why you wanted to be mean to me today.

I haven’t met you, no, but that’s quite the list you’ve compiled of the misdeeds of a neighbour, and must have involved considerable curtain-twitching.

Look, I get that it can be hard to settle in a new place (I’ve moved around a lot), and that you’d like more of a village, but isn’t it also possible that people just like this woman and are ok with lifts etc? That she’s someone who is good at landing somewhere new and making friends quickly?

She seems to be doing the new place + new people much better than me, yes. But, not because she’s nice or doing the ‘right’ thing (as thread title goes). @blueperil

So often when you're dealing with a company they are difficult and unhelpful and lazy. If youre polite and kind you don't get anywhere. As soon as you then become pushy and rude then they seem to give in. I don't want to have to be heavy handed- we can all do it, most of us just don't want to.

Being kind and decent gets you nowhere nowadays. It's upsetting

But that’s a different question — no one is going to want to befriend someone purely because you’re ‘nice’ or ‘do the right thing’. You could be all that and still be as dull as ditchwater. (I don’t mean you specifically here, just people in general.)

When I meet someone new, my first impressions aren’t whether they’re ‘nice’ but whether they’re interesting (to me). I don’t think people would describe many of my friends across various contexts as ‘nice’. I’d say the one thing the majority of them have in common is that they would be described as ‘strong characters. They may have nice manners, reciprocate invitations, and be helpful to neighbours as well, obviously, but that’s not why I like them!

The trick of any virtue is finding the proportionate mean between excess and deficiency…so says Aristotle anyway.

Kindness as a virtue can become a vice either in its excess (being a pushover) or its deficiency (selfishness).

Courage as a virtue becomes a vice in its excess (recklessness) or its deficiency (cowardice).

in so far as a human life is a happy life when lived with the virtues, they must all be moderated by practical judgement about what is the right balance.

I think there’s a ‘third way’between being a complete arsehole and being a people pleaser/getting walked over

Being kind and helpful isn’t the same as being a doormat.

No, I’m not talking about friendships here. I’m talking about a person who was very strategic at approaching the people who are useful to her.

I’d never let my neighbour drive two of my dc to two different schools every morning, even if they said they didn’t mind. To me that is not fair and too much of an ask. It’s using people.

They have a good chance of meeting life partners with the same values and having a happy relationship/life. That’s quite a good benefit I’d say.

There's nothing wrong with being kind, polite and a decent human being with well established boundaries and a sense of worth.

You've taught your kids the first bit so now teach them the second bit about establishing boundaries whilst still being polite.

I went to the funeral of someone recently out of family obligation and not one person had anything good to say about him. We were all there put of obligation and do you want the end of your life to be like that? All the funeral goes were visibly relieved once the funeral was over. The deceased went through life like a tornado, completely unconcerned about the chaos he created for others. Don't be like him, you're better than that.

Well said, Aristotle.

if it's not too late (ie they've flown the nest) teach them to also consider what's worth giving your all to and what isn't. Because you're right, in some environments being decent and having integrity will get you fucked over.

But you don't have to stay in that sort of environment when you're older. They don't have to settle for the first job / friendship group / partner. They can move until they find one where their values of loyalty and decency are mostly reciprocated.

There's a good reason to do that - an environment of decency and trust is an environment where people are happier and thrive. It's a lot nicer when you don't have to watch your back all the time.

Tbh your post is clearly written at the end of your tether but you also sound rather bitter and bit self-pitying. It's very hard not to feel like that when you get fucked over, but it's not a pleasant place. Ime it's better to acknowledge that someone or some people aren't behaving well, why might they be doing that, and choose which people to hang out with instead.