To think feminism has made dating harder, not easier, for women?

[BluntTaupeSea]

On paper feminism should mean better relationships but AIBU to think it’s actually made dating more confusing, with higher expectations and constant power games?

The problems you are describing are more a consequence of online dating than feminism.

People in past generations most commonly met through friends or work or a shared pastime, so they might already know each other a bit or at least have some shared friends and acquaintances in common, and come from similar walks of life.

It wasn't like it is now where people are meeting up with complete strangers who they know only from an online profile.

Some careers force women to move rurally to complete their training. So this might affect some woman’s relationships/dating.

I think this is rose tinted spectacles. It hasn't been simple for a long time - but people were just more light hearted about it before. Now adays the problem is paradox of choice. All the window shopping online, is there someone else etc.

Why would you assume you’re exclusive after a date or a few dates? Why wouldn’t there be a conversation where both parties are on the same page and decide together what they are or aren’t?

I didn’t watch SATC but as a teen saw too many people get their feelings hurt because one party thought they were together (usually girls) and the other didn’t and then friend group divided over who was right/wrong because the two didn’t think to communicate with each other about if they were together or not. Thought wouldn’t you have a conversation first instead of assuming. I wouldn’t assume after a few outings I was someone’s friend so why would I assume that I was someone’s girlfriend after a few dates.

Taught me to be upfront and honest from the very beginning what I was looking for instead of assuming the other person knew what I wanted or felt the same way.

Saying that, you could be honest from the beginning and some will still think you weren’t serious or didn’t believe them from what I’ve heard from others.

Maybe you’re right and dating used to be simpler back when roles were clearer: the man knows that he opens doors and pays the bill, all the woman has to worry about is looking pretty. Man talks, woman listens and shows interest (but doesn’t offer opinions - don’t worry your silly little head trying to act like you understand topics you couldn’t possibly comprehend). Men make the choices, women do as they’re told. Man can give woman a slap if she forgets her place; he is in charge and she mustn’t forget that. It’s all so much simpler for everyone!
(In case it’s not entirely bleeding obvious: outdated offensive attitudes aren’t my own, I’m very much a feminist!)

Genuinely, what specific aspects of dating do you think have been complicated by feminism? I can imagine why incels might prefer pre-feminism ‘simplicity’, but can’t see what’s in it for women, or why you think feminism has caused the power struggles/poor communication you’ve experienced.

Are you a woman OP?

I don’t think it’s feminism that’s made dating trickier. I think the increasing focus on individualism and materialism has made people look out for themselves more. Both men and women. And the increase in porn culture has made dating (and relationships with men) more dangerous for women in some ways. If those things had increased without feminism then women would be in an even worse place now, and it would still even trickier.

If there was ever a case for not underthinking anything, whom you’re auditioning for a potentially longterm relationship and to be the parent of your children is it, surely.

Oh, hang on, you’re the usual three-part-name poster with the same goady questions.

Power games? You mean that women dont put up with any old shit?

Lots of weird, incel like comments on MN in the last few days.

There's not confusion, people can set their own roles and for most couples that involves the same things as it should. Working, doing housework, showing affection to each other, if you have kids both being involved in all the aspects of parenting.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'whose more invested', how is that linked to feminism? On pay, again people can set their own boundaries, I personally pay for what I got the majority of the time and that's how I see it as fair. Again I wouldn't really have a joint account except for a few things and would rather be financially independent. That is something many women never had and something I value as a result.

For things like multiple dating etc, people can set their own expectations of what they want and they should communicate that. Yes more people are going on multiple dates at a time, people can set expectations, they can say if they want something causal or fun, so if that's what they want then as long as the boundaries are clear and open, there's nothing wrong with it.

No.

YABU.