To think most “nice guys” only act nice because they want sex?

[SnarkyOliveCrow]

When men call themselves “nice guys”, I can’t help thinking it’s less about genuine kindness and more about hoping it leads to sex. AIBU to think “niceness” is often just a strategy?

In what context? Friendships? Generally meeting them in social settings? Dating?

I think this is a little unfair as most people will conduct themselves with kindness, as 'good people' and general niceness when aiming for a relationship, and part of that will be so you can be appealing as a partner and to have sex with.

That's just human relationships for you. Most people put on their best side to attract someone, and I don't see that women are any different.

If you mean outside of relationships/dating, then no I've not come across that.

Anyone calling themselves a “nice guy” is a huge red flag.
Good men show they are good men by their actions over time not an arbitrary, self imposed label.

I didn’t mean all men who are nice are secretly scheming. I meant more the ‘self-declared nice guy’ type, where the niceness feels transactional, like it’s done with the expectation of sex rather than just being part of their character.

My experience is men who are genuinely nice do not call themselves “Nice Guys”.

The men who feel the need to state that tend to be entitled arseholes.

This!

Can you explain the 'self-declared nice guy' and what this actually come across as in real life, and in what context? Sounds like a movie or fiction trope.

YANBu - noone is nicer to you than a man who hasn't had sex with you yet.

I mean the men who label themselves that way, often when they feel women owe them attention for being ‘nice.’ It’s less about genuine kindness and more about transactional expectations. You see it in dating contexts especially, the guy who says ‘women never want the nice guys, only the bad guys’, as if niceness should guarantee romance or sex. That’s the dynamic I was referring to, not everyday kindness.

Anyone who calls himself a nice guy almost certainly isn't. It's for other people to decide whether he's nice or not. But I suppose most of us are guilty of acting nice when we want something.

Yes – I got it the first time, but you're still not describing what that person looks like in a real life context. How do they 'declare' this? What does the actual behaviour look like?

The only men (friends) I've known in real life to say something like 'women never want the nice guys, only the bad guys’, is from very young twenty-somethings/late teenagers when hormones are running high.

In real life it often looks like a guy complaining directly to women about being ‘too nice’ and not getting dates/making digs like ‘well I’m a nice guy so why do women always overlook me?’/expecting gratitude or even affection just for basic courtesy. It’s not every man, of course, and yes it’s more common in younger men but you do still see older versions of it too, just dressed up as self-pity or bitterness.

I've honestly never known anyone to describe themselves that way. It would be weird, like when being asked to describe themselves, starting with "well I'm a really fantastic person..." Surely it would just come across as egotism and put people off?

If the point is that people who appear nice and kind on the surface sometimes have ulterior motives then yes, that's true of some people of both sexes.

I've not really come across it – again, seems like mainly a movie trope or in teenagers.

I see many, many young women very much taken by 'bad boys/fuck boys' who are addicted to the chase. They tend to be very charismatic and love bomb. I remember this sort of thing among me and my friends when we were dating in early/mid twenties.

I think the nicer, but not so charismatic and 'dashing' men, are often overlooked in scenarios like this, and I'm not sure why it shouldn't be as obvious to them as is it for the women seeing it from the outside too? And I'm not sure why they can't talk about it when discussing dating and relationships.

I also encountered women complaining that men passed them over due to looks/shyness also, and gone for for blonde bombshell party girl.

What's the difference?

Seems like you've hooked too far into a trope to start yet another man-hating thread.

Oh very much this. I don't go for the ones that say they are feminists/support women at all, I don't care what they SAY they are. Deeds not words.

I think a lot of people have not been single in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s and have no context as to how pervasive this is for single women which is why the first few replies are saying ‘wtf’ as they have not experienced this

Men who are looking for a female (for whatever reason) have settled on using being a nice guy as their main selling point and telling you that they are ‘a nice guy’, rather than allowing you to make up your own mind based on their actions

They are not nice guys if they need to tell you

^^

This is basically what “Nice Guys” sound like. That entitlement. That being “nice” and nice alone entitles you to female attention.

But you cannot expect sense from somebody who refers to criticism of a certain type of behaviour from a subset of men as “man-hating”.

What's wrong with having the opinion that being nice should be really attractive quality?

What does 'nice and nice alone' mean?

It’s really very real and actually it is not young men it’s often jaded and divorced older men

Men have a much lower success rate on dating sites than women overall. Women will usually be unsolicited by men online - hence why they have invented apps where you need to match with each other. This was to get a more even playing field, however if you ever dated pre Tinder or Bumble it was pretty intense. Often men who had a lot of knockbacks would be quite bitter and resentful and not understand why, because ‘I’m a nice guy’ and that you owe them a transaction in return for them being nice to you. When you don’t reciprocate they often turn nasty

I had a male friend who was actually very good looking but completely obsessed with the nice guy rhetoric in relationships and he was always single and couldn’t make a relationship work because he was constantly complaining when things didn’t go his way that he was nice and didn’t deserve it. Totally unable to self reflect. We are not friends anymore I couldn’t take it

I did not say it should not be an attractive quality.

I said it’s not enough in and of itself to have people be attracted to you.

And only entitled arseholes feel that way.

And most men who whine about being “nice” not being enough to land them a woman of their choosing generally tend not to be “nice”.

(And let’s be real - the men who say this would not date a woman they did not find attractive simply because she was “nice”.)

@Doornon

Men have a much lower success rate on dating sites than women overall.

Where did you read this and how is “success” defined?

Often men who had a lot of knockbacks would be quite bitter and resentful and not understand why, because ‘I’m a nice guy’ and that you owe them a transaction in return for them being nice to you. When you don’t reciprocate they often turn nasty

Exactly this. Men who say this think being nice should be rewarded with sex.

You're bringing up two different things – older and divorced men (now?), and years ago on certain dating websites. How do the men now, away from dating sites, display it behaviourally?

Your male friend – did he complain when broken up with or passed over? So he was absolving himself of wrongdoing by blanket statements (to you) of being nice?

Replies per message sent I think. I remember reading once that, on average, a man has/had to send something like 30 messages before receiving one reply, whereas women had to send 3 messages to receive a reply (those numbers are made up – something like that). But was thought to be down to that men populated dating websites 4 to 1.

It would be interesting to see the data on that.

I think replies per message is a weird baramoter for success tbh. Depends on the content of the messages and intent of the messager.

I have to say I’m incredibly alarmed by the narrative I see in mumsnet with regards to men. Maybe because my house is mainly boys (family of 5, 3 of them boys). Don’t get me wrong I have had horrible experiences with men but since I have found my husband (20 years ago) I can say that nice guys exist. Not because they want something but just because they are decent human beings. And of course we are raising our sons to be the same. And goes without saying that my husband isn’t the only decent guy out there.