To think most “nice guys” only act nice because they want sex?

[SnarkyOliveCrow]

When men call themselves “nice guys”, I can’t help thinking it’s less about genuine kindness and more about hoping it leads to sex. AIBU to think “niceness” is often just a strategy?

By all means we should talk about it. I was really taking a general view of what I have seen on MN… I’m on gardening leave at the moment and have more time on my hands than usual. And I have read some really crazy stuff on here. I’m not saying men are all great - again I have read some crazy stuff. Merely pointing out a trend that I have seen written here and again saying that there are still decent men out there because I don’t believe that I’m the only woman who is trying to raise their boys right. But clearly that’s not a welcome perspective here so off I go to do some gardening or something

God yes. See also self-proclaimed ‘male feminists’ who ironically exhibit the worst cases of misogyny by patronising you and treating you like a child. They’re also almost always dire in bed. “I’m not like the other guys” - no shit.

Perfect then! Im glad im now down with the kids and aware of what a “nice guy” is

"I'm a nice guy" is a complete red flag.

They're not, and they think they're owed whatever they want.

My friend: he was not able to accept any knockbacks. He would agonise for hours about why she did or said XY or Z but never able to accept any responsibility for his own part in whatever was going on. He was like this with women from the moment he started talking through to the breakup. His entire gripe was ‘why does this always happen to me? I’m a nice guy. I don’t deserve this’ and ‘all I am is nice and no one appreciates me’ and things like ‘all women want are bad boys and not nice guys like me’. If he bought them flowers he would expect a second date etc

Was his attitude specifically geared to sex, as per OP?

Well, that’s probably their prerogative too!

He wasn’t able to take no for an answer for any reason, for anything related to a female without getting resentful and spiralling into his ‘I’m a nice guy’ pit. He wasn’t a nice guy, we don’t need to analyse him more than that. He was a red flag and women would spot it at some point and dump him. He was and old friend and he just got worse with age.

Of course it’s their prerogative, but it hardly seems ideal if every man is a player who doesn’t treat women well, or endeavours to behave like one,

All men want sex. "Nice guys" and "bad boys" alike. So isn't better to have a nice man than a bad man?

I’m sure no one thinks this either. Likely they’re annoyed at women going for fuck boys when it’s so obvious they are shitty. I always recall getting quite annoyed with then for the same!

Hmm. Seems quite specific.

its not that it’s not welcome but an obvious inability to listen to what hundreds, thousands if not millions of women are concerned about - deep internal and external misogyny and violence against them. I don’t feel bad about speaking up about it because it might hurt your feelings as a mother, I stand by other women and want to hear what they have to say - so that all parents can raise their boys to do better and not sit in denial. Not liking something doesn’t make it less valid

Yep. The truth is something that most women are in denial about. The majority of men ultimately view us as a penis receptacle. Some are more obvious than others of course but most you wouldn't even imagine. That ever so nice but geeky colleague in the office, that kind elderly man next door, your best friend's husband that you've known for years? Offer to drop your knickers and see what he says. Bet it's an instant "yes".

Yes, if you are talking about men who are actually nice. But Nice Guys™ are not actually nice. I think that's the OP's point. I personally know plenty of men who are nice who probably would be willing to have sex with me if the opportunity arose, but they're not being nice to me on the off chance I'd have sex with them. They're nice because they're just nice people.

Erm thanks for your feedback that I didn’t ask for? 😂

A ‘fuck boy’ is generalised as much as a ‘nice guy’

men are not good vs bad there are subsets of men but incels are REAL AND RISING

a stereotypical ‘fuck boy’ can be someone who wasn’t that into you but slept with you then didn’t get into a relationship that you were hoping to

women need to be able to talk to each other to protect themselves from these men (as often their parents aren’t actually teaching them anything apart from as per this thread, they believe women are crazy man haters 🙄)

Urgh, my ex was a self-proclaimed nice guy. All it meant was that he pretended to be nice in order to get what he wanted (money, power, sex).

I hear he's single again now, so ladies of Totnes and surrounding areas, beware a bald, short, charming business man trying to get you on his boat.

I would like to say that you haven’t hurt my feelings one bit. You weren’t rude, didn’t call me names you spoke your mind. Why would I be hurt by that? I however disagree with your comment: “inability to listen” - if that’s directed at me. I do listen, and read and think and adjust accordingly when I feel it’s necessary. I also don’t think you should feel bad for speaking your mind. Obviously you don’t know me - but I’m the “black sheep” of my family because I speak my mind. And I welcome it in others, especially women. I agree educating our boys (and girls) is crucial. And I certainly don’t sit around “in denial”. We actually just watched a puzzling documentary on bbc called “Americans new female right” with my older son on Sunday. It was a bit scary. If you haven’t watched it I would recommend it. I was raised differently than my brother because I was a girl I knew how to do and did all the chores at home. Not my brother. So I know a thing or two about passing down to our children traditional roles and the expectations that come from that. I also didn’t say because I didn’t like something it made it less valid - I simply offered a different perspective- maybe that wasn’t clear, because it certainly reads like you think my perspective is less valid than yours. Again - this might because it’s all written down online and tone and intent can sometimes get lost.

It’s a forum. Asking for feedback on replies isn’t a thing.

Most men have sex as the goal, even the nicest are working towards it. Once you see it for what it is, instead of resenting it just join them at their game.

Are women in denial about it? Male brains has been wired, by evolution, to give them an incredibly strong drive to operate this way. It's one of the reasons why we've been very successful as a species. I assumed most people understood that.

You voiced disappointment (alarmed) that women are coming onto a forum to make negative statements about men, because ‘not all men’ are like this. You are concerned at what women are saying and the tone, because you stated concern about your own children and what this means for their future and how they might be seen as men in society. You described this as a ‘narrative’ and wanted us all to know ‘there are nice guys’

You do not seem concerned for the women saying these things or the future women who could be on the receiving end

Men are violent and abusive towards women on an unbelievable, unfathomable scale, every single day.

We aren’t lucky if we meet a guy who doesn’t harm us. It should be normal

It’s internalised misogyny that women who have spoken up and explained what this means have been so heavily scrutinised on this thread. I’ve had my posts picked over by some internet weirdo who clearly doesn’t believe what I’ve written but doesn’t have the guts to come out with it (so just alluding to it passive aggressively instead)

I couldn’t disagree more with this post and your idea of me based on a few of my words if if I tried! It is reductive of you to place my whole personality based on a few posts.
how do you know if I’m concerned about women or not? You don’t know me, my profession, what I have been through at the hands of men. Men are violent? Really - do you think I’m not aware? I sadly as many women have suffered greatly at the hands of men.
The problem I find with this forum is the lack of nuance. I didn’t specifically state that I’m concerned for women therefore I mustn’t be? That is problematic and not how I learned to deal with different opinions. If you want to know something ask - don’t assume. Specially in an online forum where so much is lost and open to interpretation.
also, nowhere did I say women were lucky if they found someone decent - of course it should be the norm.
an I worried for my sons - of course - I worry about the “sins of their father” as they say. But I don’t shy away from honest conversation with my eldest (youngest is two young). Am I worried for my daughter - incredibly so in a different manner - teaching her to protect herself and hating having to do so but very aware of the world out there.

I agree with you. Men have evolved to sow their seed at most available opportunities. But I've previously been vilified on Mumsnet for voicing this fact. Apparently I'm either an outrageous cynic or I need to raise my bar when it comes to men. I'm 68 now and have known men from a wide variety of backgrounds and demographics over the years, I've lived and worked in the UK and overseas and this is what I've found.

I found your post from the off to be focused on telling women like me that not all men are bad, we are not stupid we know this. Some men are bad. We don’t need be informed some men are good men. That doesn’t protect women. At all.