Palliative care nurses, do you lie?

[IsitTruewhatTheysay]

When you miss your loved one die, race to the hospital and get taken into a little room. The palliative care nurse tells you it was a very peaceful death, your relative went into a very deep relaxing sleep when administered second medication after I had left. They slept deeply for acouple of hours, would not have been able to respond at that point in any way, and vitals dropped all of a sudden, and I was there when it counted, when the person was still responding.

I had been at the hospital for 8-9 hours with my relative who had the death rattle. The nurse told me she didn't think it was imminent, and I could go home for some rest. She said my parent was becoming agitated, so the second medication was on it's way from the hospital pharmacy and would be there quickly as we left.

Are they lying to make you feel better?

This information was given without me asking, and this lady was the most amazing lovely nurse I had ever met; you could not ask for anybody better to be with your relative outside of family. She apologised for saying it was not imminent, and that he deteriorated quickly with the second medication all of a sudden.

I didn't ask any questions as wanted to race to my relative as soon as possible, despite her telling me of the death, it was the way I reacted. I now wish I had asked more questions afterwards.

Not a palliative care nurse but did sit with my Mum in April the night she died. They'd stopped 'treating her' and doing obs etc, she was confused and agitated so we asked them to give her something to make her comfortable. She went into a deep deep sleep, didnt stir when there was a room full of people talking and lights on etc when normally she'd never been able to sleep through that. She'd been asleep/unconscious for around 10 hrs when I laid down on the camp bed about 4am and turned all the lights out, it was just the 2 of us then. I woke about 5.20am to find she'd died - she did just slip away, no distress no discomfort at all, it was the silence in the room that woke me as I'd been listening to her breathing. So from my experience yes it really was peaceful once They'd given her medication, and apparently it's very common for people to 'wait' until they are alone to die.
Lots of love x

My DS is a palliative nurse, she doesn’t lie. She does put a spin on it. I know that many people die when relatives leave the room. Too many to be coincidence.

So sorry for your loss OP - I'm not a palliative care nurse but have done work around end of life care. It's very common for patients to pass in that one moment that their loved ones pop out for just a minute. I don't think anyone really knows why, but it does seem to be a long recognised thing from the HCPs I know. If you want to understand more about dying I really recommend the book Modern Death by Haider Warraich - I read it a few years back and found it really delved into modern EOLC in a very sensitive way. There's also a hospice nurse in the US who makes TikToks - I think her name is Hospice Nurse Penny, and I find her explanations very empathetic and reassuring. Hope you're OK

If someone is receiving palliative care it's extremely extremely rare for them to not die peacefully, so there is little need for the nurses to lie to family. My deepest condolences.

If someone is receiving palliative care it's extremely extremely rare for them to not die peacefully, so there is little need for the nurses to lie to family. My deepest condolences.

Like other posters, I've experienced palliative care with a parent. Their medications were increased the day before they died as they seemed to be in discomfort. After that they were asleep all the time, did not wake up when their family gathered around them. Someone stayed up with them overnight and they died a few minutes after that person left the next morning. I was there and it was extremely peaceful. They simply did not take another breath. There was no distress or gasping etc.

It is very common for people to die shortly after someone leaves.

I am a nurse and have looked after many patients dying like that. Towards the end, the periods of unconsciousness increase so it really is peaceful. I have gone out of my way to sit with the patient if they have no relatives with them, even if the patient is unconscious and the relatives would not have known if I had left them alone. I know it is very important to a lot of nurses to not let patients die alone.

As a PP said, a lot of patients seem to hang onto life and only slip away when their loved ones have left. I’m not convinced they do this on purpose, I think it’s just a calm, relaxing thing that happens.

You could always call the ward and speak to the nurse again if you want, and ask for clarification on details. I would take phone calls regarding deaths weeks previously because things have been playing on the relative’s mind. We don’t mind answering questions. I think if you are bothered about something, it will just keep nagging at you.

Thank you so much for your reply, and I admire you so much for the amazing job that you do. 🫶
The crazy thing is I lost my dad 22 months ago, and have driven myself to distraction with this question. I can't ever turn the clock back, and stay with him, I had been with him from 1.30am to 11.am. The doctor rang advising us to get to hospital, he was now actively dying. Dad was unconscious the whole time, I never got to speak to him or anything, and he couldn't open his eyes.

Dad had the death rattle all of that time, and his vitals were good so the nurse thought he could live a day or more like this, and she told us to get some rest and they would update us with any change. I got home and went to sleep. She said meds were coming, and they would relax him.
He picked up when we were with him, and trying to lift head, reaching out for hugs on the exact side I was on, he could hear despite going in and out consciousness while being in the deep sleep the whole time throug no choice if that makes sense. My relative was shocked he could hear and mustered all of that strength to give those controlled hugs; he was so weak. He reacted to my words the correct way, moments I will never forget.

Thinking I'd go back a little later I went to sleep, then phonecall one hour into sleep saying his vitals had dropped all of a sudden; they weren't expecting it. I live a good 40 minutes drive from the hospital, didn't get the call until 1pm, dropped my young children off at my dm's, one is ND so had to make sure he had enough entertainment with him and throw everything into dm's home.

My dad's room was miles into the hospital in very awkward place, even my sibling who is great with directions got lost. I got there 3pm and he had died half an hour before. Sibling missed it by 1 minute.
Honestly I'm so annoyed with myself to not ask those questions. I have forgiven myself for missing dad's death, because hindsight is a great thing; if I could go back I would have never left, and missing his death has made the grief 100 times worse. It was weird when I did leave him, he calmed right down and sighed when I said, "They're bringing your medication, love you and see you soon dad." It was like he was tired of me talking for hours on end and was going to sleep despite already being asleep. He was like this when healthy so it definately fitted my dad's personality, so it felt natural I'm what felt like a very unnatural situation.

I just keep telling myself that my words would be ringing around his head, and that he didn't know I wasn't there, hoped he waa dreaming memories/hallucinations of happy times.The beautiful nurses were with him, and said he slept whole time and the vitals just dropped so quickly, that he did not know.

So sorry for huge reply.

I also take solace in how relaxed and peaceful my dad's face looked. I'm unsure if everybody looks this way, or if it was a truly peaceful end as that lovely lovely nurse said. A friend told me that there is nothing peaceful about death, and this has stayed with me.

I’m sorry for your loss, and sorry for your friend that their experiences have left them with that impression.

Be reassured, death can be peaceful and especially so when a patient is receiving palliative care.

You can let go of him now, knowing that you did nothing wrong and that he was cared for.

I lost my dad three years ago. I wasn’t there when he died. He actually told me he felt a bit better and to go home and get some rest. The nurses said he told them to stop bothering him too! My friend’s dad died just after everyone left too. I think some of these dads perhaps don’t like having people around them fussing. My dad was a bit like that when he was poorly too, wanted to deal with it on his own. They’re capable types, who have spent their lives looking after their families. They perhaps don’t like the role reversal. But either way, you have to be kind to yourself and not keep torturing yourself. Ultimately your dad knew he was loved and you’d been there for him. Even I know that from the few paragraphs you’ve written. 💐

Thank you, I will buy this book. I'm currently reading, 'The In-between' by Hadley Vlahos. I just am struggling to find situations like mine, the patients are talking, thinking people are in the room. I never got that part.
It was literally dad went into hospital extremly ill, distressed and confused with my sibling (memories she can't even talk about; it was that horrendous). I got there, and his eyes were closed and he was what I now believe to be in terminal agitation. They hadn't medicated him yet at that time as whole A&E ward was chaos, he suffered too long, and eyes closed, almost like he was locked in and fighting to get out. 2 days later he was dead.

My own experience was my dad died while I was holding his hand , he coughed once took a couple of more breaths and his eyes just dulled so we knew he had gone - it was very peaceful as he had been appropriately medicated and over in seconds

I sat with my mum and heard the rattle and she just.. stopped. No agitation or anything
I was also sat with my nan who opened her eyes and said “bill” (her late husband) and again just sort of stopped

That is reassuring to hear. I was upset to find out that their brain activity continues for x amount of time after death. The fact the hearing is the last to go and that would mean he would hear the lovely nurses and not his own daughter. I am just hoping he could hear my voice on his head along with other relatives. Maybe it made it easier for him to slip away. I was sort of thinking it would be distressing hearing your dcs voices and having to leave them. It is what I have to hold on to. I just want to wind the clock back, but I don't know what dad would have wanted. I know I was with him when he needed me most as nurse said.

@CoastalCalm sorry about your dad as well 🫶 God death is horrendous, just miss my dad so much. I'm in my late 30s and my dcs are young.

I miss mine too but it does ease a little and eventually you’ll be able to smile at his memory rather than feel only loss. It was a bit easier for us as my dad had a long illness so it was a slow goodbye really and a sense somewhat of relief that he was free but still heart breaking

I've been with a fair few people who are dying as part of my work and almost universally it's been peaceful at the end. I would never tell a relative death was peaceful if it wasn't. Sorry for your loss.

I was a nurse and have been with many people (and my own family) when they have died. I would never have lied to a relative and said it was peaceful but I also can't think of a time it wasn't. I also feel that the dying person has often 'waited' for the right moment and the right person the be there, or not to be there. You are not alone in having sat there for hours and then popped out for a bit- this happens often, and did in my own family too. I have also sat with people whose family were not there. A nurse would never like to leave someone alone. You were with both your relative and your dad when they needed you there.

I would like to share some experiences here.....I was with my dad when he died, after a week being unconscious in hospital. At the end, he opened his eyes and lifted his head, took a gasp and put his head back on the pillow, eyes closed and I knew he had gone. When he opened his eyes, he looked through me, though, and his eyes were shining and looked a completely different colour. Although this was a shocking moment - his gasp, his eyes, lifting his head - and of course I know there will be a biological explanation for this - I subsequently have found it a point of comfort. It wasn't pain or fear (he was on heavy medication) - it felt like a goodbye and looking to 'beyond' this world (I'm not religious) to his next stage of being (I'm not woo either, but that is just how it looked and felt once I'd got through the immediate gut-wrenching, howling, devastating grief). I spent time with him afterwards, said my final goodbyes, and he looked so peaceful. None of the nurses lied. I stayed with him the whole week and they treated him with dignity, chatted to him, told him what they were doing at every point, and they were honest with my questions. He went too soon, but I do feel he had a 'good death', and I draw comfort from that.

My friend's mum died with her there. She gently slipped away. She was told she had about 24 hours, so she went home to get a shower and a change of clothes, and went back within an hour. She had an hour with her and then she passed - my friend believes that she waited for her to get back, but didn't want to draw it out for her any longer. But my grandad passed when my grandma nipped to the loo - I think that 'doing it alone' is very common. But my grandma herself passed within half an hour of family arriving from the US as they knew she didn't have long - but they got that half hour to say goodbye.
My friend's husband died the day after their wedding anniversary - a very aggressive cancer - but he wanted that last anniversary with her but not to 'taint' it by dying that day. He died in the night on a hospital bed at home with her asleep on the sofa next to him. Similarly my father-in-law wanted to get past a mile-stone birthday, despite the prognosis of days weeks before - he did, and died two days after the birthday.
All so many what-ifs which can haunt us, but these and other experiences do make me believe that in cases of passing in hospitals, hospices, care homes, at home when it isn't a 'sudden, unexpected' death, the dying person is able to make choices to a degree, and whatever happens it is the right way for that person to die when that is the path they are on.

I was there when my husband died. A Marie Curie nurse had sat with him overnight so I could get some sleep, and when she left she said that death was very close. My daughters and I sat with him for the next hour, and his death was incredibly peaceful. His breaths just got slower and then stopped. No sound at all.

I suspect that monitored end of life care helps with a peaceful end, so if he was at the hospice (as opposed to a hospital ward) is be inclined to believe the nurse.

I'm so sorry about your previous experience. That must have been very distressing.

Sounds like our family got unlucky. I'm glad it's normally peaceful.

If a patient is under palliative care chances are they are receiving the right medication and care and it will have been a very peaceful death. It’s very common for those ready to leave this earth to wait until they are alone……. They simply dont want those of you that love them so much to see them exit the world. I say this from experience as a nurse and also I had a loved one die recently, myself and a relative had spent so much time with her, and yes I wanted to be there despite my knowledge that often people pass when they are alone, and you know what? I left the hospice as I needed to get back to my little girl, which my relative would have wanted me to do, my other relative was with her and fell asleep…… and so then she just fell asleep forever. Death is very personal. Please don’t overthink it OP x

It sounds like your Dad felt like he could let go after having had those precious final hours with you and you telling him you loved him.

My only experience was with my Grandma, to whom I was very close. We didn’t get that time with her - we were told she was deteriorating and to come in, but I didn’t think she was actively dying. When we entered the room she had the death rattle and looked like a completely different person. My mum, sister and I all hugged & kissed her and told her how much we loved her and that it was okay to let go, and she passed moments after.

I think our loved ones just want that time with us before they can let go, and obviously it’s been really painful for you because you weren’t there in the moment and felt you didn’t get to say goodbye. But maybe that time you had with him earlier was the goodbye and comfort he needed in your Dad’s eyes, if that makes sense? It is so hard to lose anybody you love, sending hugs OP ❤️‍🩹💐

I am so sorry about your relative too. 💐My dad will have been annoyed I was there all night as it was probably. He will have wanted me to have gotten back to my dcs. Even now, he would be telling me off for sitting ruminating on it. I believe if I had have been with him at the point he died, I would be sitting here wondering if I made it worse for him, and more difficult for him to let go, made his passing more difficult somehow.
Maybe things worked out the way they were supposed to. With all of that medication, even with the capacity to hear, I very much doubt he would have when he was so heavily medicated; this is what I am telling myself. When I got there Dad was disconnected from the machines, and lying in bed in the hospital room. I was shocked at how peaceful he did look, and had never seen his face that relaxed in his whole life. I ran straight over and kissed his head, no fear; I hadn't been in a room with anybody dead before. I felt such a warmth in the room, it was a feeling I will never forget, it felt like his energy was still there in the room with us, but no more fighting. I wonder now if alot of my issue is not knowing for certain, I just have to hope it worked out for the best.