War, farming and food supply

[Lifeinthepit]

With the recent incursions by Russia into NATO territory, it got me thinking about the increased danger of war. Bearing in mind we have nearly 70 million people squashed onto this island that's a lot of mouths to feed if the food supply lines are broken (which presumably would be a priority target by any enemy).

With that clear danger in mind, I wonder how the government is encouraging and supporting our farmers and what measures they are taking to ensure that farmers continue to farm the land to produce our food. And also how they are making sure there is enough proper farmland available (and not built on or sold to Blackrock to be covered in solar panels) to potentially support 70 million hungry people.

AIBU to think that the Government are doing the opposite of making sure our food supply will be secure in the time of any war.

I could not agree more.

Trying to turn the UK towards 100% food self sufficiency is not a good use of resources if your aim is to protect as many citizens as possible

Much better to get those citizens to do what they are best at - putting up flags and having protest marches - and buy the food elsewhere at a realistic price.

It would take about 25 years to make the UK self sufficient in food at a cost that absolutely no one is willing to pay.

It’s still silly to put in policies that reduce food security.

Possibly.

If we are reducing food security (and I don't assume less farming in the UK axiomatically makes that change) then ware we buying anything with that cost ? Bearing in mind cabbages don't really make great missiles ?

Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean are we buying weapons instead of going for food security?

Rn we are managing to damage businesses so they result in lower tax receipts so probably not.

I mean exactly what I wrote.

One of the reasons we are able to sit here in relative comfort, in an industrial (arguably post industrial) nation state is because as our industrial revolution (which being the first in history had no precedents) started to really ramp up, it became clear that as a nation we had a choice to either carry on feeding ourselves with relatively inefficient farming, or transfer our labour resources to the factories. mills and other key industrial processes that meant we could sell railway locomotives (for example) and buy grain with money left over.

All of which should have been taught in history in reception, really.

However above and beyond that - and the bit many really don't like hearing - is that Britains wealth was mainly generated not by making stuff, but by trading stuff. That's what you can do when you develop the worlds most sophisticated insurance and trading machine backed with the power of a navy that means you can either trade yourself or (more crucially) allow others to trade while you cream of a nice %age.

Most of the UKs problems stem from the fact that the very very very very very very very few that accumulated wealth this way made damn sure us peasants would never see any of it. However that is a different thread.

The lacks almost everything needed to become self sufficient in food in an industrial world. Land. Labour. Economics. And most importantly, culture. Despite valiant efforts by young farmers in a TikTok generation, you won't get many people signing up to work the land.

Even with the ‘taught at reception’ stuff which probably gives a little lift for some reason Labour are not looking good on this.

They are harming both business and food security.

The op is right to say hang on are these policies are good idea? To most of them it’s likely a no.

And there we go again. Just a party political pop.

OK, how about we forget about Labour ? What are Reforms plans "for the land". That don't involve an awful lot of white paint ? What will the Tories do when they regain power ?

Also I think it's becoming increasingly disingenuous to keep trying to pretend that self sufficiency in food (which as we have all agreed is a practical impossibility) is the same as "the best for farmers".

We could all double the wages of farmers, remove their obligations to pay tax and treble the price of food, and we still would not have improved our food security one jot.

Every single election, every single government, every single budget creates winners and losers. Who would you select to lose, so that farmers can pursue the impossible dream (that none of them have) of food self sufficiency ?

There. You've won. We need to giver famers everything they ever wanted backdated to 2024 when (according to you) the rot set in. All you need to do is tell me where you are taking the money to do that from. You can choose.

If you want to look up policies for other parties you can.

I think Labour have got it wrong as they’re going for the private sector which is causing a ballooning debt servicing bill and lower tax receipts. This applies to farmers which has the added bonus of lowering food security, which is unwise.

When they want the private sector to be the losers then we all will be given how funding works.

If you want to look up policies for other parties you can.

I'm not the one who uses every other sentence to say "Labour sucks".

But you are the one telling me not to vote for them...

Vote for whomever you like. Look up other policies if you want, or don’t. My posts are on Labour as it’s their policies we’re facing rn. I think it’s unravelling for them anyway.

Why do you say that? The government in the Second World War organised food rationing brilliantly.

Even then the population was too high to be fully fed without imports. Now our population is higher and we produce even less of the food we eat in the UK. That needs to be addressed.

Where I would criticise the government is for their plan to build on virgin country pside. When it’s gone it’s gone forever.

Reception? The Industrial Revolution is taught in secondary isn’t it? I remember doing it for gcse! 😂

OP the thoughts you are having are massively mentally unhealthy.

The government continues to make life difficult for farmers... and the media demonises us... but who will be needed to feed the country, should war ever break out?

Then we might get the respect that we deserve. In the meantime, people will continue to look down on me because I do not look neat and tidy. Believe me, you wouldn't if you worked with dairy cows, either!

What we need is farming folk left in charge of the Agricultural arm of the government. However, we're too busy dealing with red tape and running our farms to run the country!

We had a very long, very drunk discussion in the pub on this very subject a few years back when the Ukraine war started and based it on WW2 levels of imports of food and materials.

The agreed solution four hours (and many drinks) later was that a certain percentage of the population would have to eat the remainder of the population to balance out the resources. Most of the time was spent on the actual percentage we couldn't agree on as it would depend on the time of year, how much we could grow next year and how much meat average UK resident comprised of.

For a few months our little group had a running gag of saying how much protein was on various people when they came into the pub. 😂

This is one reason I try to be as self sufficient with food as possible. I am having solar panels with battery back up to be energy independent too. I don’t trust the government to make any meaningful plans for shortages.

If you try to feed the uk on meat and diary you won’t be helping much - meat where that is all the land could possible support and then veg / grain/ potatoes every where else to maximise calories per acre

We are too hilly for growing fruit, veg and grains around here, as well as being too wet and exposed for some of them.

I just meant all farmers across the UK, who supply meat, fish, dairy, fruit, veg, grains, etc.

🤣I have to admit having had this conversation too and not liking the pecking order of who was going to be eaten first....

Why? Should we all just be passive sheep (topical) and not think about the world around us? Or be interested and have an opinion on what the government is doing and whether their policies are good for the country ? Unfortunately I read the news..probably a mistake...

Ah..the Spinning Jenny and Arkwright's Mule. I remember having to draw those in Form 1. Good times..

That’s a bit much

That's just a weird take though. Everyone needs food. If we are at war we still need food. If we can't import it we need to produce it here. We therefore need decent infrastructure to be able to at least have a good stab at it and that means farms and farmland and people who actually know how to farm. If government policy means that farming isn't financially viable for farmers and all the farmers sell up to Blackrock and Blackrock cover the land with solar panels or it gets built on what happens then?

In the last 70 years we haven't had to worry as war looked unlikely. But then we haven't had Russia invading a European country for a while.

Yes Governments.have to weigh up competing interests but I'd suggest if a war is about to happen defence, food and energy security are more important than most other things we spaff money on. And the amount raised from farmers in IHT will be tiny I'm comparison to the damage those taxes will do to the rest of us.

I'm assuming her thinking is to not think?.