To think that America wasn't that great in the first place?

[malificent7]

I do have lack of historical knowledge but as far as I can tell modern America was formed by white settlers commiting mass genocide of nstive Americans then importing black slaves to do their dirty work and then moaning about there being black people in their country. In a nutshell. Am I wong?

Native*

You're not wrong but they aren't all awful. Just that the racist ones seem to have got a lot louder recently. Much like here in the UK.

The USA was great for certain folks, but that greatness for them was often at the expense of others. The G in MAGA is basically 'great' for some and 'garbage' for others.

I'm not saying that modern Americans are awful. I'm saying that it was formed by awful means. immigrants displacing natives in an awful way...now moaning about the consequences. .

Great for white men.

Its like the UK...decendants of immigrants moaning about immigrants!

Well given it was largely Brits doing the settling, the genocide and the slavery I’m not sure we’ve any place to judge.

The modern US was great for the religious refugees (Puritans) who were basically being made not welcome in the UK and so set up over the pond to live in religious freedom. It was always a secular state, which most of Europe wasn’t at that time. It’s always slightly bizarre to me that it’s ended up being a country where religion plays a much bigger part than in most European countries, including this one which even has a state religion!

Obviously they trampled all over other people in the process, so not great for them. Also not unusual for that time. Empire in one form or another across the globe was normal.

This calls for Will McAvoy …

I heard a podcast the other day that said Massachusetts was founded by puritans. Pennsylvania was for those who didn't really like the puritans 😁

If you're really interested there are some great podcasts on this. Empire has a season on it, American history hotline is good. Throughline is good on how things like institutions have evolved.

And where do you think the majority of the “white settlers who committed genocide” (you don’t need the word “mass” in front of “genocide”, by the way. It’s already implied) came from? Why do you think we speak English? People in glass houses…

I’m an American. I love this country. Nothing wrong with that. If you don’t live here, you don’t really know what you’re talking about.

Let’s face it, nobody really liked the Puritans 🤣. They probably didn’t even like themselves.

Well, Andrew Jackson, who sent the Native Americans off to die on the Trail of Tears, was born in the US and of Scottish and Irish descent. But please do continue to blame all of the historic and modern wrongs of your country on the English, as so many Americans do.

FWIW my husband is from the US and can’t wait to get out of there. For myself, I find there is lots of things I like about the USA and Americans. And lots I don’t like, from my experiences there and my husband’s experiences. So I do feel I have a right to an opinion. As for people in glasshouses, I’m sure a lot of Americans have opinions on other countries, including ones they’ve never been to. I mean, especially ones they’ve never been to. To hear my in-laws talking about the UK, you’d think they lived here. They’ve never been out of Texas.

I agree with @Ddakji

The founders were British men of their times. As for throwing stones, the British live in a very fragile glass house.

The Declaration of Independence was the first document to codify freedom of religion, freedom of the press and state that ‘all men are created equal’. Very limited for the reasons OP says, but still a massive and historic step forward.

Washington and Jefferson were both slave owners and they banished Thomas Paine for being too liberal. It might have been groundbreaking for the time, but let’s not pretend they were morally superior.

Where did I say that? Please don’t put words in my mouth

Has anywhere ever been "great" every country has had its historical context and dark history.

They saddle you with debt, from birth, so you have to work in poor working conditions, where your debt just gets bigger and bigger - whilst those at the top get richer and richer.
People die, on a daily basis, of easily treated diseases, because they don’t want to look after thier citizens properly.
The political system is a joke, 2 parties and a billion pound popularity contest, decides who wins.
The “justice system” has zero independence, with judges being Political appointments.
There are no checks & balances in government, which is why Trump & allies can do what they want, regardless.

Land of the Free my backside

It is, and always has been, the Wild West. Quite scary that some want us to move more towards thier backward way of governing.

Yeah but it was great for the people who benefitted from it! They want to go back to a time when they had all the resources, power and opportunity, and the world was theirs for the taking.

Everywhere has its ups and downs.

But I suppose if you have a movement called 'make anerica great again' you do need to be able to explain what was great (that isn't now) and how you will do that.

They seem to suggest that America is not great anymore because of EDI. I think its probably not that.

If Make Britain Great Again gets lots of traction, I would be baffled unless it was about moving from a service economy to a bit more investment in our remaining manufacturing industry.

That was the way of the World for most of human history. Why single out the US?

That's all a long time ago and no worse than colonizers did to this country or anywhere else.
America's super power status is far more recent and was built on wars in Europe.
A search of something like "What made America so powerful" is a real eye opener. It certainly kills the folklore of the USA altruistically coming to the aid of others.
"America First" is the current slogan. America has always put itself first.
Perhaps if we took a leaf from their book, instead of giving away British land, we could be in a better position.

Well you must have visited a lot to be able to come to this conclusion about a country so what did you think when you were there to judge?

PiggyPigalle · Today 10:08

What British land has been given away?

The rest of the world is hugely, often adversely, affected by U.S. politics, power and culture, so it's not really fair to suggest that people who haven't lived there can't comment.