So what’s going on with all these flags around ?

[omj]

I hadn’t really noticed it until I went to see a friend who lives 30 minutes away and the flags were everywhere there but not in my area.

Then today I saw someone with a Union Jack flag hanging from their car window, like is usually done during the World Cup.

whats going on ? I have seen a few posts on social media it, but not really explaining what’s happening and why people are putting flags up all over the place.

I'm not glossing over it, it's irrelevant to my point. There are a hard core of very racist people in the UK. But if you call the vastly larger group who are like seeing flags (or similarly who think immigration is too high) ignorant, thick or racist, it won't persuade them, they will learn to reject anything you tell them.

It's irrelevant to your point that the organising force behind the flags, and behind the social media messages and the majority of the flags that 'ordinary people' are seeing is the hardcore group of very racist people?

I see it like this. Imagine you have a favourite orange hat, you wear it all the time. Then overnight, the orange hat suddenly became the trademark of paedophiles. All peadophiles now wear orange hats. You would probably be wary of wearing your hat from now on in case you were wrongly accused of being a paedophile.

But conversely you might think “You know what, fuck them! I love this hat and a load of perverts aren’t going to stop me wearing it”. However, it would be obvious that you risked being called a paedophile.

But if you’d NEVER worn an orange hat, but then suddenly chose to wear one at the very same time that everyone knew it was the new paedophile uniform, you’re going to look like you are deliberately identifying as a paedophile.

Yes it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

Most people who see and appreciate the flags are entirely unrelated to the kind of people profiled by Hope not Hate.

These are the people being swept up in counter productive blanket insults.

How many more bloody flag posts .

This is the perfect description.

Now you're talking about seeing the flags, not putting them up.

I am politically middle of the road and in my opinion, for the vast majority of people, it's about being fed up witb being told that flying our own flag is racist.

I would say for the vast majority of people, they are happy with anyone of any colour coming to live in the UK provided they arrived and live here legally and are happy to accept and live by British values.

Despite everyone on Mumsnet claiming that it's racism, and that anyone who doesn't want open borders is a far right racist, there is only a very small percentage of people involved who are actually racist. It's about culture not race.

I might be overthinking this but bear with me. Being ancient I recall a TV discussion from the 70 s. It was after a rugby game and one of the panellists asked why England fans were so passive. Why didn't they wave flags or scarves and sing patriotic songs like the other fans.

To which and English chap replied that they don't need to jump up and down like the fans of lesser nations to draw attention to themselves. Because they are confident of their identity and their place in the world. England is the standard to which another nations aspire.

I couldn't help thinking he had a point , the smug git. So perhaps what's happening now betokens a crisis of confidence? Maybe something similar is happening in the USA. And if or hopefully when the economy picks up people will put their toys away.

You really have no idea, eh?

Seeing a flag isnt going to get you called racist or thick on here or other social media, saying that you liked them likely will. IIRC there were examples on this short thread calling people who just supported, and not raised flags, ignorant.

Some of the flags look very nice and cheerful. It is wholly depressing that they are raised by racists, therefore that completely overshadows the nice and cheerful look.

I’ve always believed that was the exact reason that we weren’t patriotic in the way other countries are. We didn’t have to big ourselves up because we were the most powerful nation on earth. When we did fly a flag it was always the Union flag. The George cross was never really a thing in our lifetime, other than being used by the NF.

Now we’re having a crisis of confidence because now we’re no longer the rich, global superpower that we were.

Let's see how nice they look at the end of the Free Speech for Fascists day out. That may be a better time to argue the merits of flag or no flag.

Have you had your head in the sand for a few weeks..

It’s interesting to note that in France this week they’ve had massive protests (80,000 police officers deployed across the country). Their grievances are very similar to ours - cost of living crisis, stagnating wages, inflation, savage government cuts, tax rises, rising pension age.

The difference is that they blame the actual people responsible - the government. They haven’t rounded on a marginalised group to take their anger out on.

So if you imagine a person who puts up a flag because they're nice and cheerful. Do you accept that that person might feel aggrieved by blanket accusations of racism and stupidity?

If they are doing it right now, on their house, or on lamp posts and roundabouts, in the context of the racist operation 'Raise the Flags' merely because it's 'nice and cheerful', and they are then surprised and upset to find themselves grouped with the racist flag operation that is doing the exact same thing, then yes, I think that's a bit stupid.

Incidentally, I had a thread recently criticising people getting arrested for supporting Palestine Action when they hadn't properly researched the organisation. I think that's stupid too.

Don’t you think it would be a very foolish time to put a flag up, even if you believe it does look nice and cheerful, when there’s currently an EDL campaign to fly flags? Don’t you think it would be interpreted as support for that campaign even if that wasn’t your intention?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

And yet Keir Starmer adopting the strategy of appeasing the ‘normal’/soft racists has only further emboldened the far right and actual neo nazis.
So legitimising people’s lazy anti migrant sentiments instead of challenging these or providing hope seems to be a hiding to nothing- who knew?

I dont get how people can't see this is the wrong time/reason to raise our flag. Where were all the flags previously if this is because they are all so proud to be English? It has always been fake news that we can not fly our flag and this is being played on now.

My grandparents have had a flag pole and had a union jack flying for years. I hope no one thinks they have it in support of this campaign. It was actually for a lovely reason, my grandad always said once all of his children were married he would fly a flag.

A lot of people say that they want to raise flags to "reclaim" them from racists. But people like you will just call them stupid and racist anyway.

Uhuh. Are they painting them on roundabouts?

I’ve seen some examples of ‘reclaiming’ and they tended to distinguish themselves from the racist ones by positive messaging.

I actually think that would be a very great idea, as long as there was some way to differentiate between the two groups. Or a massive campaign to take back our flag and make it clear that racism won’t be tolerated.

Some people are unaware of the wider political debate (see the OP) , or seek to "reclaim" the flag, or would fly it just in defiance of people who tell them thye shouldn't. You would call them racist and be fine with that. I'm not.

Either racism is a grave matter and a serious accusation to level at someone, or it's a meaningless term we apply to people who fly the wrong flags, want to lower immigration or have a hairstyle influenced by another culture. I think it should be the former, I wouldnt call someone a racist without decent evidence anymore than I would call them a murderer.