MIL drama

[HandW123]

My MIL is really unwell mentally, she’s a hoarder and my husbands childhood sounds verbally abusive/neglectful etc. After 5-6 years of knowing her I believe she probably has a personality disorder and is a narcissist. For context, her house is not just a bit cluttered. It’s genuinely unsafe, unhygienic and being around her anywhere causes a lot of stress to both me and my husband (and probably her). When she visits us at our house, she sits down and does nothing to help, when we visit her at her house (which is 4 hours away) it’s exactly the same. We end up shopping, cooking, cleaning and most times have to clean 2-3 rooms to even be able to make a cup of tea etc.
I used to put up with it all for him because he was desperate to maintain a relationship with his mum, and this is something I really respect about my husband. However, it all changed when I got pregnant, suddenly I realised how she was going impact my child unless she made some changes to her lifestyle. Since my son was born (3 months old), she has visited twice, and has been very strange around him and has not been supportive to us. For example, we were still waiting hand and foot on her when my son was only 2 weeks old, she didn’t even make a cup of tea. She doesn’t dote on him like a normal grandmother, and has ignored pictures of him that we have both sent to her etc. During pregnancy, I stopped joining him on visits to her house and I have told my husband I will not be going back to staying in her home as I feel it’s totally inappropriate with a baby/child as it is so dirty and it’s a fire risk. When we discuss her visiting, it is so tense because my husband can feel my animosity towards her immediately and I get frustrated with his delusion every time. He is so hopeful that each visit will be different and it never is. Each time we see her she causes stress, can say hurtful things towards my husband and I’m left with an emotionally stressed and exhausted man for weeks after she’s gone. He works really hard all year and so I want him to enjoy his holidays stress free and equally want to support him if he chooses to spend his holidays around her. The topic of Christmas is always tricky and now I feel with my son, we will get maybe 10 magical childish Christmases and I don’t want them to be filled with stress because of her. The difficulty is that my mum and family are very supportive, helpful and are absolutely besotted with my son so my partner often gets jealous.
This year we are spending Christmas with my family and he would like his mother to visit us Boxing Day - I tried to remind him how stressed he gets and that this is a very special time of year but he says he still wants her to come. When I asked if she has asked to come or attempted to make plans, he said she hasn’t. I genuinely believe she is indifferent to when she sees us over the holidays, and sometimes I think we are just putting unrealistic pressure on her forcing her to participate in christmas and NYE when she honestly doesn’t really want to, she never seems upset or hurt when she has no plans (I honestly think she prefers it).
I have no idea how to navigate this going forward - not just Christmas, all conversations about her, all visits. It’s got to the point where I cannot stand her, i’m shocked at my strong dislike for her, when she holds my
baby, my skin crawls and I want to cry. It’s like all of my mother instincts are telling me to get away from this person but she’s obviously staying in my life so how do I deal with this going forward?

My post doesn’t say I have objected to her visiting this Christmas, so re read it.
You haven’t lived the last 5-6 years with her or listened to the awful stories about his childhood, or helped him, loved him and supported him as he has come to terms with many things she has done. I’m not sure if you read the comment I put to someone else that she told me herself once she locked my husband in a cupboard when he was only 2 years old. You have no idea the pain this person has inflicted on both her sons and so no, I don’t particularly want her around my son.
I am trying to make things easier by asking for help from anyone who has been through something like this as right now I know it isn’t fair and I don’t wish to go on like this. I also have feelings and I’m finding this difficult and it’s ok for me to admit that. I am not trying to prevent contact with my MIL but I am trying to set realistic boundaries as she causes pain to my husband whenever he sees her. If I didn’t want things to be better for my husband, why would I be on here posting? I would have just cut contact a long time ago as the woman is toxic and I can’t change that.

Sharing DNA with a person doesn't making them a positive influence on your life.

Maybe the baby might be better off not having a relationship with an emotionaly abusive grandmother. Maybe the OP is trying to make sure that their baby doesn't live their life with the echos of his father's pain. Some might call that being a good mother

Maybe the OP can see the complicated and painful relationship her DH has with his mother and wants it to be smoother, easier for him. Maybe she feels righteous anger that his mother treated and continues to treat the man she loves so badly. Maybe she wants to protect him, and is frustrated that he can't seem able to protect himself. I would imagine that she might feel helpless because her husband, as the victim of abuse, still wants a relationship with his abuser, because society, and people like you, shout so loudly about how supremely important mothers are, while closing your eyes and ears to the stories of abuse.

Not all of us have miserable relationships with our adult sons and their families!
I have 2 sons, and now 2 lovely DILs and a grandson. No drama, no animosity, I will look after the baby one day a week when DIL goes back to work, we all share fun times together and genuinely enjoy each others company, including the occasional holiday together etc

Thank you this is helpful, but also I usually do host but im talking about recently with a new born baby how stressful that is. So when she visited 2 weeks postpartum, I couldn’t move as I had a very traumatic birth and had lost alot of blood/torn and needed many stitches and she didn’t even make a tea or do anything to help, in fact, at once stage I got up to use the toilet and she took my seat with a foot stool and said that she needed it more because her ankles were sore. This is what I mean.

Has anyone recommended Susan Forward's book Toxic In-laws to you before?

It's ok for your DH to want to maintain a relationship with her but somehow he has to understand that she is always going to be a crap grand parent, a crap MIL and it's ok for you to put very little effort in.

It would help him if he could see that she's also never going to be the mum he wants but that sounds as if it's a mountain too high at the moment.

I LOVE my Mil. My mum is dead and she's like a mother to me as well. She is kind, generous, and a very loving person. My sons adore her. She can get on my nerves some time just like I can get on hers for small stuff. But she has always respected boundaries genuinly cares for all of us.

I think the part you’re falling down on is trying to protect your DH. He loves her and wants a relationship and you can’t make him see things your way (believe me, I’m the DH in our scenario). Being so clear about not wanting her around is causing him conflict that he isn’t equipped to deal with.

If I were you I’d talk to your DH about boundaries around your dc and agree on those. Her house isn’t safe so dc won’t be going there, she’ll have to wash her hands before she can hold dc, she can’t stay for more than 2 days, can’t take baby out on her own etc.
Then add a boundary or 2 of your own (like you’re not going to be waiting on her hand foot and finger, she either gets her own cuppa or DH needs to make it as you’ll be looking after dc the whole time), and maybe plan to take dc out for an hour or so when she’s there so you get a break.

Before she comes it may also be helpful to talk about how DH is when she’s leaves and make a plan for that (enlist your family to babysit so you can go somewhere? Pick somewhere nice to go for a family walk/park?). Make sure your DH is aware he needs support after seeing her and is reassured that it’s there waiting - and please don’t complain about her to him the second she leaves or remind him how rubbish she is. When you’re the child of that person, even if you know your partner is right, it invokes a defensive response you can’t explain and just makes you feel a bit crap.

I know it sounds like standard hosting duties but let me give you some context. Yes it’s just getting drinks and cooking meals but she won’t even get herself a drink and sometimes even just holds her cup out to my husband without a word expecting him to jump up and get her a drink. She brings a cocker spaniel who is lovely but has no training or routine (because she doesn’t) so is really excitable and over stimulated when he visits, he often pees due to excitement and she doesn’t clean it up, or really look after the dog and lets him run riot or doesn’t pick up his poo which ends up all over our garden. She lives 4 hours away, so when she visits sometimes it can be for 5 days straight which I think means you can start making your own cups of tea. As I said in the post, I have a 3 month old baby so now add a newborn baby to the past 2 visits and maybe you can see why this is inappropriate?
and yes my husband does get very stressed leading up to her visits - he gets nervous to see her.

Your husband needs to see a counsellor. He needs somewhere he can talk through everything in a safe place

No they haven’t - I will buy this book. Thank you so much

Thank you so much this is really helpful

Thanks for response, im inclined to agree with you. As I said maybe new year instead? There’s few people I could spend five days with, my sis comes for a week or so but she doesn’t expect us to look after her.

How often is she visiting I could maybe get on board with 2-3 times a year at a push. I’d encourage your dh to go more than she comes to you.

Why? Do you behave like OP's MIL? If you don't and you are a kind and helpful MIL to your son's partner/wife, I'm sure you will be welcome in their home.

Me too. This is very sad for your husband. Could you not think of his feelings?

Do you think your husband is nervous because of your reaction knowing you dislike her? Maybe it might be better if he visited on his own and could spend time with her, it would be less stressful for him and he could enjoy time with his mother.

What did you say when she told you that? She sounds abusive and entirely lacking in empathy but your DH is desperate for her to have a relationship with your baby. He may be trying to re-write history, thinking that if she is a good grandmother, it can erase his childhood experiences and he can pretend that she was a decent mum.

Does he have a therapist that he could speak to about this? She doesn't sound like a safe person to be around your baby.

You quoted that post and think the issue is the OP and not the abusive and demanding MIL with her untrained dog?

I was on your side even before you shared this. I think it's natural to feel negatively towards someone who has abused someone you love, and our feelings around certain things definitely intensify when we have children of our own! Has he ever had therapy, and if not, do you think he'd consider that?

Oh heck not an incontinent dog as well, OP! No way should the dog be in your home with a newborn. I wouldn't want its owner in it either, to be honest. I think you have to provide your DH with a cast iron reason why she and her dirty pet can't stay over. If she won't come without the dog, then the dog might be key. Surely your DH will be able to put the baby's safety over his fear of displeasing this awful woman?

Surely you can refuse to let her bring her untrained dog or does your DH insist on the dog coming as well?

I think this probably adds to it now however during my pregnancy because I stopped visiting her home - he went to visit several times on his own and then he told me he found it more difficult without me there because I do a lot of the small talk/chat with her and my husband just usually finds something to clean/fix in her house. For context, although I strongly dislike her - I am never rude to her and do my very best to be polite and as normal as possible.
He also used to get nervous to see her before any of my feelings became this strong, I never particularly loved seeing her because she was never very nice to my husband but before I got pregnant, I found it a lot easier to stay separate and to remain less emotional about the whole thing. I would listen to him and support in any way I could.

So the first time she told me that story, my jaw just hit the floor and I was a lot younger and shocked so I don’t think I really said anything. However, years later she told me the story again and by now we were married and I knew her a lot better and I said “you’ve told me that story before and I didn’t appreciate it then” she tried to justify her reasons and said (and often says) that my husband was a “bad child” and I said there is no excuse and you can’t justify it to me. These types of conversations stress my husband out because he never confronts these comments and stories she makes whereas I do.

I also 100% agree with you about rewriting history - I too, seriously hoped she would step up and be a better grandmother than she was a mother - this is why it hurts me so much when she pays no interest in our son because I know it hurts my husband and he will eventually have to accept what she is.

he has had multiple therapists in the past - currently he is not seeing one and in recent years has been in a much better head space for this stuff but I think having his own child unfortunately has lead to him having to address some hard truths about his own childhood.

We're you emotional abusive and neglectful of your son? Are you a hoarder and is your house unhygienic and unsafe? No? Then no need to feel sad then because this is a very specific situation and not just purely a "I hate my MIL" thread for no apparent reason.

The lack of reading comprehension on this site is infuriating.

He found it more difficult as without you he was more exposed to her crapness.

He could wander off to mend something and still imagine he has a normal mum. Without you doing the emotional labour he's faced with the fact she is no sort of mum.

I don’t think the OP is an issue. Just thinking that it might be easier for him to see his mother on his own as he only has his own feelings to manage then.