To ask for child maintenance in these circumstances?

[UnaskedQuestion]

My ex and I separated around 2 years ago. We have one child together and are generally amicable.

He's never been brilliant with money although he earns a fairly decent wage. When we first separated I didn't ask him for any money to allow him to pay for somewhere to rent and get set up a home where our son could stay with him otherwise he wouldn't have been able to afford to move out.

Fast forward to now and we're both happy with new partners. He has our son 1 night in the week plus every other weekend (so 4 nights a fortnight). He also picks him up from school 4 days a week and spends an hour or so with him. This was originally to fit around my work (so I do morning drop offs as he works then) but I'm currently on maternity leave so it's just for them to spend time together at present. He more often than not gives him tea these nights. The arrangement has worked well and we've both been flexible when required.

Money wise he pays for half of his swimming lessons (so about £15 a month). I get all school uniform but if I ask him he will usually pay half (though this year he's so far said he can't afford to send it yet).

That's a lot of background but it paints a picture of our arrangement and how it works. So I have him the majority of the time but he is an involved dad.

The issue is, things are really tight at the minute. I'm in my overdraft every month. My ex also claims things are tight for him too, and yet I found out he's got back from his fourth holiday this year (second time abroad) when he went to an expensive area for a week in the summer holidays (due to his partner working in a school). They went away in abroad earlier in the year and he took our son to Cornwall for a week too (which I'm grateful for, he loved it). He also seems to make other reasonably flashy purchases (game consoles etc) which he downplays but they could be second hand etc. I don't pry into his spending at all.

My partner thinks my ex is playing on my soft side by claiming he's skint all the time. My partner has similar amount of access to his child with his ex and set up maintenance payments without complaint and without her asking because he said it's just the right thing to do. It bothers him that he pays out happily for his child but we're also struggling as we're financially supporting my child too (we live together hence finances being linked). It's not fair to say it's none of his business what the arrangement is between my ex and I because he is currently picking up the financial shortfall for my son which he genuinely doesn't mind. But on principle I'm not sure if it's fair?

I know I'm entitled to child maintenance based on the online calculator and my partner thinks I should ask my ex for payments, even if it's less than the calculator suggests. I feel like I'm being greedy rocking the boat when we have an amicable arrangement even though genuinely money is a worry keeping me up at night.

What's the right thing to do here?

None of that is relevant to the q the op is asking. OP....very simple. Open a CMS case and get your child's money. It's not you being greedy or grabby it's what HE is entitled to from HIS dad. It's overnights per week that count in the calculation, so after school pick ups are irrelevant. Please just do it, this is your son's money.

Can be a lot more than £20 week in some cases.
I wonder who decided he would pick up the child after school 4 nights but not have him sleep over.
If we're honest many RP's limit overnight contact to preserve their maintenance and benefit payments (obviously not the OP as she isn't claiming)

OP I'm shocked you've let him get away with this for so long! What a piss taker. What job does he do? Put in the CMS claim immediately.

Before you rock the boat I’d work out how much 4 nights a week of afterschool club would cost, and how you would manage that, if he decides that he’ll pay CMS but stop helping out.

Id love to see your figures on that. Id say there's just as many of us working ft, not in receipt of benefits and would bloody love to share the load. I have no idea why any decent parent would resent providing financial support to their child. The whole "she gets her nails done" thing I suppose, as though RPs should not be allowed any headroom at all to spend a portion of their own money on themselves if it freed up by the other parent providing adequate support.

Before you rock the boat, what are the consequences likely to be & will it be better for DS?

1. Will ex push for 50:50, which is likely to be disruptive for DS & presumably not what you want.
2. If ex stopped picking him up from school, then (after Mat Leave), what would be the cost of After School Care? Could be £10 to £15 per day, so you’d be no better off.

I think rather than going to CMS, you should sit down & discuss with ex first. He should definitely be giving you half of all uniform & clothing costs. But if he gives him tea say twice a week, then except for actually sleeping at ex’s that’s the equivalent of 6 days per fortnight. I appreciate that CMS only counts actual overnights.

My other point is that your new partner needs to keep out of your parenting arrangements. Just because he pays support for his child doesn’t give him the right to sabotage your co-parenting relationship. Maybe he feels guilty that although he pays more for his child, he sees them less. Maybe he’s jealous that you have a good relationship with ex and see him pretty much every day and is metaphorically marking his territory. I’ve seen this happen before.

W

Yes that’s what I was trying to say

Yeah I agree with PPs, usually I'd be saying you should have long had the claim in but the after school care / dinners provided on those days presumably does help you financially even if it's not money in your pocket? Not having to pay for ASC would personally help me massively and i'd be more of a mind to sit down with him to ask him for what you are entitled to on the calculator minus a fair amount for what you'd have to pay for after school care (appreciate you don't need it right now and son won't need it for his whole school life but for now I'd be happy with that total)

I'm speaking from personal experience.
Whether or not RP's get there nails done is irrelevant.
Many posts on here from women who don't want 50/50 with there ex who cite the reason as him not wanting to pay maintenance when its just as much about them not wanting to lose this money either.

Many posts on here from women who don't want 50/50 with there ex who cite the reason as him not wanting to pay maintenance when its just as much about them not wanting to lose this money either.

Very true

Those commenting on how fast everyone moved on - yes it wasn't necessarily planned that way and not the most responsible 2 years, but this is the family dynamic we have and I genuinely believe my son is happy, he loves (and is loved by) both my new partner and my ex's partner, and his baby sibling.

People talking about if he would push for 50-50 - yes he's said in the past that would be what he wants in an ideal world. He hasn't tried yet because it's incredibly difficult to fit around his work and he would probably need to find another job.

Personally I'd be devastated and miss my son terribly if it went that way. But ultimately I know I don't particularly have any more rights to my son's time than his dad does just because I'm mum. I think my son would find it quite difficult at first (he's always been more mummy than daddy) but he adores his dad and would love more time with him even if he was upset about missing me. I would have some worries - my ex (like a lot of NRP I'm guessing) has not always been the best at staying on top of day to day stuff like brushing teeth, doing homework, hair washing etc which is less of a worry when I can pick up the slack for the other 10 out of 14 nights. His lack of contribution to parenting was a huge factor in why we split. However in fairness to him he has massively stepped up since we split and I rarely have reason to discuss things like that with him now, but I do think it could potentially be an issue if we went 50/50.

I accept that if I pushed for money he's likely to try and adjust his work to make 50/50 happen. I'd rather have my son than the maintenance money (obviously!) but I'm just not sure if it was unreasonable to ask for it, hence this post.

As people have said, the main reason I've asked for nothing until now is because I do place huge value on him doing after school care and feeding him on those nights! I know the maintenance calculator works on overnights but real life is much more nuanced.

Of course he should be paying. Ask if you don't get anywhere go to cms. Because he spends a few hours a week with his son, it doesn't mean he doesn't have to pay.

FFS, no money to pay for half of the uniforms, does he think this is an optional expense?
Stop letting him guilt trip you into subsidising his holidays!
Go to him with the CMS amount you worked out and tell him that if you were to claim, this is what he would have to pay. Then tell him the amount you think is fair (10-20% less as he does most pickups + looks after him then?) but don’t go lower than that. And also tell him that for uniforms you can each buy for a given year so next year will be 100% on him.

He should be paying to support his child. Get a proper legal agreement in court so that it can be formally set up.

It's not money for you it's for your child

That is true but I've been on the receiving end of having to do all school pickups and my ex paying less because he then would have them for the overnight. It's 'fairer' now as we are properly 50/50 but that has its own downsides- mostly me missing them! So yes he should obviously be paying, but just because CMS only count overnights doesn't make it perfectly fair. I'd reduce what I was asking for to account for 4 pickups and teas per week. And I totally get your point about worrying that will upset and arrangement that is broadly working for you. That's what happened to me!

Missed your response- very well put. But please don't feel bad about asking for something. However don't let your boyfriend play the martyr either- I doubt he's paying much if you two have another child! How much childcare does HE do for his kids (ie, not just being at yours and you doing it?!)

I would say he's got to pay half for school uniform and other things he needs. He's feeding him a lot over the week so I'd be mindful of that.

The fact he feeds him most nights should count for something - morally - if not strictly what CMS calculators are based on. And I guess if i was looking at this very objectively seems like you are only now considering asking for CMS because you have chosen to have another child and not working.
Me personally I wouldn’t risk going to 50/50 / you wouldn’t be entitled to any CMS then either so you wouldn’t have actually gained anything

in the face of it OP, you sound a bit grabby. Are things tight because you had a new baby/maternity leave? If so, that’s on you - Not your old partner. How do you know his new partner didn’t pay for his holidays and his flashy bits? I know someone in a similar position who is the new partner and she carries them financially.

Either way even though it sounds like you have a good working arrangement with your ex, best go through the courts so you both land at a fair and equitable one. Just don’t cut of your nose to spite your face!

He spends a significant amount of time with his kid including 4 pickups and dinners a week and you have an amicable co-parenting relationship.

Are you willing for him to go for 50/50 if you ask for CMS? That you're doing so after having a baby sounds like a money grab to me when you've worked out a fair distribution up until now.

Yes, you can claim it. But be prepared for 50/50.

So, the way I have read it is he picks DS up from school every night, but keeps him over night for one of those nights and gives DS his tea on (most) of the other 4 - is that right?

You mention half the swimming lessons (fair) and the uniform (you need to push for that one) but what about other expenses? Does DS have clothes and toys at his dad's that dad has paid for? Does he do other activities (that he rightly should be doing) with DS?

Your timing is poor and it does come across that you're looking to gain off this as your own financial situation has come under the cosh a bit, but that assessment is only based on guessed results to the above questions.

Ultimately, is he a good dad? Does he pull his weight (school uniform aside)? With the amount of time he is spending with DS (which is far more than many dad's who do live with their kids), it sounds like he is apart from putting DS to bed.

What he does in his 'own' time and the costs of that may be covered by his DP so the fact that he gets to do these things may not be as relevant as it initially looks.

You do run the risk here of spoiling what could be a fairly equitable parenting situation (again, depending on the specifics) because you find yourself a little bit tight financially due to your own decisions rather than unfair contributions from ExP.

I would suggest a honest conversation to address where you think any inequities do lie. However, if you actually feel that the situation is fair overall do consider that you may end up no financially better off, having less time with your DS and you may damage that amicable relationship in the process.

Ask him for money, but don’t complain when it turns into a custody battle, as he’ll say you are taking advantage of him doing after school care (which you aren’t while he’s not really paying, but you would be if he was).

if I was him I’d ask to convert 2 of those to overnight stays.

Alternatively, how much money would you get vs. the cost saving of him providing you with free childcare.

Just how much of this filing for child support is being pushed by your new partner that you've just had a baby with?

He can manage his custody stuff with his ex his way. But it sounds like he wants you to manage your co-parenting set up his way too and that's liable to backfire and result in less time for you with your oldest and a possible change to a less amicable co-parenting setup for you.