To ask will I be told when my "mother" dies? TW CSA

[Howwilliknow8]

Name changed as the history is very embarrassing-its very complicated but will try and be brief.

My "mother" had me very young and was something of a wild child. She had/ has as it has transpired over time significant mental health issues that might have always been there or brought on by drug use, or a combination of both. She has been horribly abusive to me throughout my life, neglectful when I was in her care, exposing & involving me to the sex work industry frim a very young age.

Once removed from her care there was a period of complete abandonment and occasional non in person contact where she would emotionally abuse me. As an adult, I have attempted to build some form of relationship. It is just impossible, she continues to attempt to abuse, control, coerce, damage other relationships, falsely accuses others of abuse-all of this worsens with alcohol and/or drugs.

The last time I spoke to her, I cut her out of my life and told her exactly what I thought of her. Her partner who was also involved in and a perpetrator the abuse is dead now and my mother it seems is living in some grotty caravan by choice off grid. There is absolutely no value in telling me to intervene to help. I will not do it to myself, my DH or my children (who never have and never will meet her)

I am prepared to get flamed for the next part. I feel for full closure, I am waiting to be told she has died. I feel this is the only way I will get closure as I cannot have any kind of remedial conversations with her to unpick the history; logic and reason are inpossible and she would simply use the opportunity to extend the abuse.

AIBU to ask- Will I be notified when she dies? Will I be traced as she is not allowed my contact details? The whole family is NC with her because of the way she is-the abuse was not isolated to me, so I am asking as technical biological next of kin. She has-thankfully-no other children.

As stupid as it sounds I want to check its REALLY over when she dies and she cannot hurt me any more. Sorry for the long post, I have tried to summarise everything as briefly as I can-as you can imagine the history is huge so a lot has been left out, but happy to answer questions if needed to clarify situation.

Hi OP. The hospital got in touch with me when an old friend died. I had to register her death and organise her funeral using funds from her bank account. I was not registered as next of kin, but basically someone (from hospital not police, I think) went through her stuff and found a recent Christmas card from a mutual church friend, which had their phone number on it. The hospital called the mutual friend and mutual friend put them in touch with me, as we had been closer but lost touch. This lady had no family at all but also had MH issues and when I had twins I no longer had the capacity to deal with her. I went to the hospital and they identified me from photos she had of me. They then gave me the documentation (death cert) I needed to register her death (she had died around 3 months previously) and organise a funeral. It at least meant she had a funeral. It was all quite difficult to deal with but I felt the hospital did not really want to handle things, hence tracing friends. I don't know who handled her belongings, she didn't have much and was living in assisted living.

If and when you hear, you don't need to have any involvement at all. There is no legal obligation to do anything whatsoever, even if you're asked to. A pp has given you a good statement to make, and you can just wash your hands of it all. The local authority will cremate her and dispose of her belongings.

it's highly unlikely that she made a will, but even if she did and made you executor, you just fill in a form renouncing the role.

You absolutely didn't have to, and if anyone told you that you did, they were entirely wrong, and were probably being disingenuous in order to save themselves a lot of work.

I have no clue about being informed but I guarantee you not one person would read your thread and flame you for wanting her dead

I wasn’t informed by anyone officially . Was NC with her and the rest of the family was also NC with her. Unknown to us she had put a neighbour as “next of kin”. Which she was perfectly entitled to do. So there was someone who was allowed to deal with all hospital stuff and funeral arrangements. She was also the main beneficiary of the will and sorted out probate and sold the house.

i did find out she was in hospital but only because someone from her church told a relative of mine. The neighbour found out I knew and went bonkers, rang me up demanding to know if a nurse had told me and really quite cross. I knew she had died as her solicitors sent me a letter from “beyond the grave”. Last screaming howler I ever got from her 😁. But I guess not everyone may get such a treat.

So no I think you need to be prepared that biology and being her closest relative doesn’t mean you’ll find out. She can nominate anyone. She can also tell the hospital when the time comes that she has no relatives. I don’t know what would happen with her belongings, etc if that happens. I think councils will arrange “paupers funerals” if there is nobody else.

And i only felt relief when my mum died so i do understand how you feel.

I would assume the police will visit to tell you.
Thats what happened to me, I had been no contact for 15 years with my dad. They need someone to arrange the funeral so they do come looking to nearest living relatives.

Thank you for sharing how you were all informed in similar circumstances-it sounds like it is very much luck of the draw in whether people are traced then.

I wouldn't mind the police or an official person contacting me to inform me and now I know I can refuse to handle the funeral/possessions/estate I feel a bit better. I suppose I have been worried that some new friend (she can be incredibly manupulative and charming when it benefits her for a short time) will get in touch without knowing the full history and try and guilt me to get involved.

To a PP I can fully see her writing a letter to me for opening after she has died; a last ditch attempt to wound. If she does it will spectacularly backfire as I will pay to publish it with everything she did in some local rag or on social media. She can make her own legacy there.

I won't do it at all whilst she is alive and I don't want to do it when she is dead-however I am very easily put upon (people pleaser!) and could be manipulated if someone told me it was my duty or I owed her that much in the right way. I have been preparing myself for that for a while to steel myself to refuse.

What a weird thing to hope for that I am told by the police.

Would/ could she have your contact details.Name, an idea of area you live ??
If she required any assistance in any way as she gets older,( say going into a care facility) .Social services will try to contact you as NOK if she gives name.
You are entitled to state you wish no contact and no reason/ explanation is required.
However if you are requesting information on her going forward in the future,they would note this.
This would perhaps come with some responsibility re future arrangements .At 5he very least a request to take responsibility.

A similar thing happened to my Mother with her demonic brother.Serious violent history towards my grandparents ( her parents) from this man.He served time in prison for this and family relationship severed for over 20years.
SW traced Mum after he was involved in a serious RTA ; resulting in him requiring long term care.
They expected my elderly Mum to take responsibility as his NOK.
Mum was elderly and vulnerable and was feeling very emotional about it all ,despite the horrendous history.
My brother and I were required to take out POA for my Mum to stop SW contact with my Mum regarding her " brother".
It was a dreadful time for the family .
We were informed when he died and Mum did take responsibility for the funeral , that was her choice,despite family objections.
But it allowed closure.
No one attended the funeral .
Good luck going forward with this.
I would advise thinking carefully about keeping tabs on your Mum.
Let her go,she s clearly not worth a minute in your head.

My friend was contacted by the social services (?) When her dad went into hospice and was asked if she wants to be notified. Hut if your mum dies under nature's circumstances, no idea how much trouble they will go through to find you.

So sorry you’ve had to go through this, it’s so clear you were completely failed by your mother.
I’m estranged from my father and when he died, I got contacted by the Solicitor for his Estate as I was his offspring, legally I had to be given the right to claim. The Solicitor found me through the voters role (I wasn’t on the open register).

Might be worth checking the rules where you stay as while there might not be any “estate”, even disposing of the caravan might mean you need to be contacted. Citizens Advice might be able to point you in the right direction.

Your poor mum and family, I am so sorry this sounds awful :(

As you can imagine, my feelings towards her are incredibly complex-and her death is the only closure I can hope to gain-its not about holding on to her or keeping tabs-its more I am aware of her presence in the world, like an awful black cloud-and would like to know when the sun comes out. I don't know how else to describe it.

Just an extra piece of important information, which is very unlikely that you'll need, but you still need to be warned about.

If you're informed of the death and you think that there's just one thing that you should do DON'T do it.
All my late mother's executors renounced their roles, for very good reason. I was then contacted by her bank, and encouraged by them to take a particular course of action regarding the small amount of money in that particular account. As there were no executors left, I assumed that as NOK I had to pick up this and said okay.

That one action made me responsible for the whole estate and I'm 20 months into a whole world of pain. That one action meant that legally I'd accepted responsibility. It's called intermeddling, and there's no way out. If I only I could have those few seconds of that phone call back, and refused.

Thankyou OP.
Completely understandable that you want to know she no longer exists.You really do need complete closure.
Is there perhaps a foreboding feeling that as she ages; that time could be getting closer ???
You could perhaps take some legal advice .
There may be a way of setting up a third party to relay the message to you when the time comes, without your actual direct involvement.
Be carefull though.
When you are informed ,it will likely unleash an emotional roller coaster .You may find yourself uwittingly involved in the arrangements when your true wish is not to do this.
I m not meaning anything regarding financial responsibility.
I m relating ,again ,to my situation with my own Mum.
Emotion took over rational thought.
Good luck with it all.I hope your sun shines soon. 🌞

Sorry, I didn't mean it to read like that. They asked me if I would organise her funeral as she had been in the mortuary for some time. I said yes, as she had taken care of her grandmother for many years and no one to care of her, but I didn't really realise the work it involved or all the other stuff it involved. I had the council chasing me for overpayments she'd received wanting their money back! I just gave them the bank phone number and said I was just organising a funeral. With paying the funeral home, I got an invoice and the bank gave me a cheque for the exact amount as I did not want to be responsible for her bank account.

I am sorry your mother failed you op. I don’t know if you will be informed when she dies sorry. I completely understand the need to know and how you feel it will give you closure. I am the same I am nc with my dsis now who is dm next of kin and i doubt i will be informed when dm passes unless some relative / family friend who isn’t aware of the situation with my dsis sends a sympathy card.

I was NC with my father for years and used to occasionally search his name online to see if there were any notices of death for him.

it actually ended up being a cousin on his side, who found me on Facebook, who told me.

but if there’s no one in contact with you and her then I would imagine you wouldn’t be told

@Howwilliknow8 from reading your posts it is really clear that you are still feeling a degree of responsibility in this situation where none belongs. Probably guilt and shame etc

Childhood trauma, really any dysfunctional upbringing, affects our brain wiring so for example socially we see the postcard families around and feel that we should be like that and we should behave the way they do.

However the wiring in your brain has set you up to feel absolutely unsafe in the postcard family situation because your mother is nothing like that.

Then you end up with this push pull of feelings about what you should do, based on the one hand on a cultural myth of family and on the other hand the reality of yours.

What good therapy allows to happen is that you can rewire your brain out of both the trauma reaction and the cultural expectation meaning that the pain of this push pull at least reduces for you.

The downside is that rewiring is forged in significant pain, like a diamond coming out of coal but ultimately instead of being wired for a dysfunctional family or for feeling traumatised you get to be wired for a healthy, lovely future.

The news of deaths, especially of a figure who has been controversial in peoples lives, tends to get out eventually. These things find their way through the grapevine in the form of people you'd either never heard of, or never expected.
If you don't hear this way, then I would expect some sort of official communication after the fact, which could be days, months, even years later. There will be something out there linking the two of you.

A friend of mine had been no contact with his abusive dad for about 20 years... He found out about 3 weeks after the death through a convoluted friend of a friend of a neighbour.

There used to be a daytime tv show of these companies trying to locate next of kin for people who'd died without naming anyone, but had some money. These firms will take a cut for their work.
My mum and her 2 sisters actually got a bit of money from this about 20 years ago. IIRC a second or third cousin of their dads had passed, and as their dad was no longer alive, the money went to them. I think mum got about £3k and they used the money on some new furniture!

Well done for protecting yourself and your family.
I'm sorry that you had to live through her chaotic life.
Unless you are involved with adult SS, you won't be informed.
Her life is a very sad.

@Howwilliknow8 If she does send a letter from 'beyond the grave' which you know will just contain poison, I would suggest burning without opening.
The therapy you mentioned: was it EMDR? I tried that and went down a very dark rabbit hole. Definitely doesn't suit everyone.
Remember you have created a very different, safe, life now and quite rightly deserved congratulations for this 💐

I totally understand your feelings of wanting to know when your mother has died. I had a much-hated stepfather and I eventually found out he had died by searching the internet although I realise this may not yield results in all cases. We are talking about a man who attempted contact with my DM years after the divorce and had to be warned off by the police. I felt so much better knowing I wasn’t going to turn a corner and bump into him.
In your case PP have made useful suggestions. What I wonder is do you know for sure that your mother is still alive now? When did you last have any news of her? If she is mobile living in a caravan it may be difficult to find where she was last known of. Also, how common is her (full) name? Could she have changed her name (obviously could be through marriage but could be for other reasons)?
I don’t know whether you could do some kind of national search of death records but it might be worth looking into.
I hope you find comfort and peace.

OP

Name changed for this because I dont want to be identified.

My 'not father' was a bona-fide bastard of the highest order. In short (and this is relevant) he was a hard-core gambling addict who put his need to gamble over and above everything else. And the rest of it. Divorced parents, enforced court contact....

Anyway he died a few years ago. Somehow, somewhere someone got hold of my contact details and tried to insist that as I was the oldest, I was responsible for making arrangements. In the end I got DH to deal with it. He told them that as I had been NC for 30+ years we didn't want anything whatsoever to do with it. Didn't want to know anything at all even including when the service was, where the ashes were scattered, anything. DH had to be persistent though- it was almost like people wanted to wash their hands of everything and get me to deal with it.

As a final fuck you my not father left me a 'letter' that was more like War and Peace. We burnt it on a bonfire unopened. There was also some ££ left but I told the solicitor handling it that I wasnt interested, they were not having my bank details and if they sent me a cheque it would go the same way as the letter did. I was half tempted to tell them to donate it to a gambling charity but in the end decided I wanted nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Perfectly put @Plethorapeach

I realise therapy might not be for everyone. I found it incredibly painful but the reward was worth it. Had I not had therapy, the guilt, shame, reactiveness and extreme sensitivity (and so many other negative issues) would still be there.

EMDR and therapy saved my life and my sanity.

It will also stand me in good stead when she eventually dies, because I've let go of the guilt, shame and self-blame

It's unlikely that you would be contacted if you are not named, and it would be hard if she is transient. there are sometimes posts in papers or on social media. I think it would just be a sort of word-of-mouth local gossip; you would find out if you understand what you mean. As someone else said, if you were traced as a relative, they would expect you to deal with the funeral and expenses. There would be otherwise a social funeral whatever is cheaper probably cremation usually just the undertaker and member of the council attend. the ashes would probably be kept for a certain time in case anyone claimed then scattered in a designated area. The items she would have and any money would be claimed if no beneficiaries would go towards the funeral expenses. i assume the other items left would be kept in case anyone claimed for a certain time then disposed of. as an afterthought if the caravan was reasonable then that would be sold towards expenses too
I was told that my abuse therapy was helping, as all my bad memories were like a big jigsaw puzzle in a box that had been dropped, so it had exploded all over the place. therapy helped me pick up the pieces, then put them in the box again, which could be stored away in the attic. it happened, but the box is tucked away, so it did not need to be opened if you did not want to. i know that sounds odd but its very helpful to me when I approach therapy