Angela Rayner tax fail

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

But it’s ok because she was just badly advised.
I’ll remember that excuse next time I fill in my tax return.

But still confused about one can have 2 main homes?

It is clear. There's been days of denials that she dodged tax. She's now saying she couldn't say anything about it all due to the details of the trust being subject to a court order. So, she did know, but she's got what she regards as a valid excuse. A lie is still a lie.

And. as with Nadim Zahawi, it's not the 'error' that is usually the issue, it's the subsequent lying about it that should mean a cabinet minister is done for. Starmer doesn't look like he's going to have the 'integrity' that Sunak showed over Zahawi though, despite everything they said in opposition.

i think its highly awkward but she did what she was advised to do - she only owns one home so it's not unreaonable to think that you only would only need to pay tax on one home. However given her position she shoud have looekd at it all a bit more carefully.

I am not a fan generally however right wingers have been out to get her since day one because of her accent and working class roots.

I am guessing she will have zero proof of this legal advice.

It's just another tax avoidance scheme.

It is possible that she lied but we don't know enough currently to be sure. Only sight of the relevant documents will tell us if she has lied. She has indicated that the continuing media interest in the case prompted her to engage another legal advisor to review what had happened and this led to the advice that she is liable for the additional stamp duty on the Hove flat. Concurrently, tgere was an order from the family Court that prevented disclosure, to protect her child. The order has now been lifted.

I still see there are a few posters telling us to leave her alone. Some Labour supporters will forgive almost anything and try and make excuses for things like this. She has been very gobby about this sort of thing in the past and has now been found to be doing exactly the same.

I also knew that Trusts need careful handling and surely to God she would have made sure that she was 100% sure she knew what she was doing. God forbid she filled in the forms herself!

She is quite honestly on very dodgy ground and now seemingly doesnt live where she is an MP!

Probably we will find out more over the coming days.

SHE IS HOUSING MINISTER AND HAS FORM IN ACCUSING OTHERS OF THE SAME THING. SHE WAS CHIEF MOUTHPIECE WHEN SHE WAS IN OPPOSITION.

OK - so I've just seen the update and watched the interview. She has sought further advice, been told her original advice was wrong and she does owe money which she will pay AND she has referred herself to parliamentary standards.

So my point stands - until the parliamentary standards investigation is complete she should be left alone to get on with her job!

Badenoch has of course called for her to be fired....but there is no update on whether Kemi will refer herself to parliamentary standards for her Stamford lie and then resign 🤔

If I put my house into a trust like this I'd be accused of avoiding paying inheritance tax etc.

If just putting your house into a trust got you out of paying extra stamp duty, everyone would just do that. Which is why it doesn't work. The issue with her advice is what she told them about this, surely, and whether it was expert legal advice or a paralegal doing the conveyancing or something.

How will she now find an additional £40k I wonder - I may be wrong but didn't have the impression she is independently wealthy.

What a mess.

Anyone who has been on the wrong side of a tax investigation by HMRC will tell you that following advice from anyone else is no defence, paying the correct amount of tax remains your own responsibility.

Angela had access to the best legal, financial and taxation experts in the country, yet they apparently gave her incorrect advice.

Add to this, that she (the Minister for Housing) did not fully understand the terms of the sale of her share of the property to her child's trust, nor did she grasp exactly how the Electoral Roll works, and you have to wonder just what she is doing in that job.
Or perhaps she is taking us all for fools?

As for any of us taking tax advice from the family accountants, Swindler, Careless & Co, don't bother!

For me it's the hypocrisy (sp). She has admitted not paying enough stamp duty but she has criticised at least two tories and told them to resign for doing the same thing. so I think just on that basis she should go.

Well you would be avoiding inheritance tax - but as long as it is legal to do so, then so what 🤷‍♀️

It would also be a completely different type of trust. My step-father in law left his house in trust to his biological daughters. My MIL has a lifetime interest to live in it but when she passes or chooses to move, the trust shifts to my SILs.

The difference is my SFIL retained ownership of the house while he was alive - despite the trust being in place he could still have chosen to sell the house at any point. Raynor was a trustee and her children lived in the house but she didn't own it as she sold her stake to her son. She couldn't choose to sell it and will receive no benefit from it if the trustees or her children decide to sell it down the line.

Tax avoidance is not illegal - tax evasion is.

I believe there are far too many loopholes in the tax system which only benefit higher earners. I think they should be closed so that those earning more pay more tax.

As a higher earner - I would happily pay more tax if those loopholes were closed because it would mean more money to public services BUT while those loopholes are in place, there is no credible plan to improve public services and this current swing to the right continues, you can be damn sure I will take advantage of every legal loophole and lever to minimise the tax I pay and ensure my children's future in a world in which how much money you have determines your quality of life!

you don't ask where she found 800k from? MP salary is in a range of 95k, she doesn't seem to have highly paying city jobs on her CV?

I know - I've got one for mine, but thought Angela's excuse was said to be that the house was being given to her ex and then that there was some court order (never specified) which prevented her talking about it?

Above all though, arranging assets in a way which best suits the individual is the very thing she's slated others for, so whatever the ever-changing story she's still on the hook for utter hypocrisy at best

Or in other words just another grubby, grifting politician ...

The problem is she relished being the labour attack dog herself, and seemed to really enjoy it to the point I found her a bit unpleasant.
Also, if Rachel and Kemi lie/embelish their CV’s that’s one thing but we are talking about money owed to HMRC for HOUSING issues at a time when Labour are fixated on increasing taxes around this area and she is herself in charge of this area.
I hate all political sleaze from whichever party, they are now the ‘grown ups in the room’ and so will be scrutinised.

She bought the flat with her partner, and put down a 20% deposit. So she must have borrowed about £300,000 - perfectly doable either her MP and ministerial earnings.

I don’t like Rayner (she looks like the kind of woman who would sell her best mate down the river, if you know what I mean) but totally agree @BloominNora that it’s baffling so many people think Rayner will have had hot and cold running wealth management advice on tap, just because she’s a minister. If the uk was a proper grown up country, maybe that would be true. But the truth is ministers have absolutely bugger all personal/domestic support, and any attempt by Rayner to use her ministerial position to get free advice on her personal affairs would have been treated as a scandal in itself.

Basically, if she wanted expert tax/financial advice she will have had to find it and pay for it like the rest of us. Should she have done this? Yes. Did she do this? We don’t really know.

Agree she’s brought some of this on herself by being holier than thou. I winced when she called Tories ‘scum’ - that kind of crap is always going to bite you on the arse. Not smart, and means lots of people think she’s a bit of a twit as a starting position.

Her behaviour is so sleazy.

Why do the two most powerful women in government start the tears as soon as they are potentially found out wanting?

And yes, saying so and so told me it will be fine doesnt wash with HMRC!

I suspect until the investigation is complete Labour will refuse to comment. How long does an investigation take?

She is either incredibly thick or thinks we are all fools. Her vibe is often that she is just like the rest of us and then is found she is gaming the system.

Quite honestly unless she publishes the advice she was given and perhaps her questions when she got it she needs to resign.

I liked her but she needs to go. We had enough sleaze and fiddling under the Tories.

Pp are citing Shoosmiths, not that I know various advisors but they look like they know what they’re doing. I doubt they fucked up.

In which case they should protect their reputation.

I don’t think she would have intentionally risked her political career over 40k of tax savings. While 40k is a lot of money for most people, it is not for that much for Rayner.

However she did try to cover up her error and so she should probably go for that dishonesty.

I doubt she is too bothered. Once she is out of the Cabinet it will be easier for her to stab Starmer in the back.

She's in the government. The government sets the tax regime. As a minister she has to follow the rules. Didn't we go through all this with the covid rules? It can't be one rule for me and one for thee. She's admitted breaking the rules. She has to resign. She'd be the first to call for a resignation if it was a Conservative minister. She's been all over tax avoidance in the past. Didn't it "kill people"?

Nor read many posts but the tax situation regarding Trusts and putting property into Trust will have several pages of HMRC regulations about it in their Tax Manual - which any tax lawyers and/or Trust lawyers should certainly be well acquainted with and have studied fully.
So her advisers were who?
As Deputy Prime Minister she could/should have called on the best legal brains in the country re. this situation but failed to do so - that in itself is very bad judgement.
What power would she have if Stammer had a heart attack ?? One might worry about her decisions and who her legal advisers would be then.

Why how wealthy is she?