Who has right of way? Bike lane crossing road

[Latenightreader]

I'm hoping someone can clarify matters for me as I've had this happen twice recently and I'd like to check if I'm doing something wrong. This is really not intended to be a cyclist bashing thread. It is long, sorry.

The area where I live has a fair number of shared pedestrian/bike paths on the pavement. When it comes to a junction I've always assumed that the cyclists should slow or stop (depending on visibility) and ensure nothing is coming before they cross the road, just as pedestrians do. Twice recently bikes have whizzed past me and an accident was narrowly avoided. I've attached a diagram (which I know can take a while to appear) to try to make it clearer. I've looked at the highway code and it is clear about if they were on the road, do I treat the pavement cycle path as part of the road? When I've biked I always stop (and will keep doing so) but should I expect others to go ahead?

Incident 1: I'm on the main road (20 zone) indicating to turn left. Cyclist is travelling in the same direction on the pavement cycle path which curves so you can only see about three car lengths behind along the path. They were going considerably faster than me at this point. I start to turn and they shoot across the road in front forcing me to brake hard. I am always careful to check before I turn because it's near a secondary school and kids walking don't always look before crossing, but this bike came up really fast and were not visible when I started the manoeuvre.

Incident 2: I'm approaching a different main road from a side road to turn right. A cyclist almost went into the bonnet because he zoomed across without checking there were cars coming. I was almost at a stop, but normally stop level with the road (where there's a white line) rather than before the dropped kerb. There are no road markings to indicate I should stop sooner, and visibility is not great (bushes, decent sized verge between path and road, plus road curve) so I always do stop.

Any thoughts?

I'm not sure I quite understand the diagram, but cyclists going straight ahead at junctions have priority over vehicles turning into or out of a side road, unless signs or markings state otherwise - it's in the Highway Code, which generally tends to give priority to more vulnerable road users, so bikes are classified as more vulnerable than cars for obvious reasons. I always give way to bikes.

The priority is pedestrians, cyclists, then cars. I don’t know if this link helps. If I’m cycling, pedestrians have priority, irrespective of where we are, as far as I’m concerned

https://www.cinch.co.uk/news/2022-highway-code-changes-explained

Pedestrians and cyclists have priority over motor vehicles when crossing the road at junctions.

I think that in each case the cycle has priority - BUT it's bloody stupid to whizz over a junction, just like it would be for you to zoom up to it.

We have exactly this on my route to school - and frankly I'm grateful cycles are rarely on it (note that it's a shared path with pedestrians, not a cycle lane at the side of the road, with a little kinda hump at the mouth of the junction so cycles don't have to go up and down the kerb) because it's downright dangerous

There's normally a lot of traffic on the main road, including buses and a bus stop just before the junction - so if I'm turning right into the junction and across the bike/pedestrian path I literally will be unable to see a bike coming at any speed at all a fair amount of the time, and they quite likely won't be able to see me either. We should both take care, and most cyclists do, but there's the occasional teen boy, or lycra-clad road warrior (edit. Or idiot on an e-scooter) who seems to think that the law is a shield of steel. Further up it turns into a normal bike lane, but one of the ones with the pedestrian island for the bus stop, and I've seen a cyclist absolutely tear through there too and nearly take out a pedestrian.

Basically we all need to take care.

I witnessed a terrible incident where a cyclist, on a cycle path, rode past me (on foot) and went over a junction with a road. A van driver, turning left into the road, was so furious that the cyclist didn't stop, that he screeched to a stop, jumped out of tha van and pulled the cyclist off his bike, screaming and swearing at him.
It was clear to me that the cyclist had right of way and turning traffic needed to stop, as per the revised highway code.

Why are you even driving without knowing the rules? Go and get a refresher course.

Very clearly the cyclist has right of way.

As a driver I need to give way to the cyclist and do but as a cyclist I would stop and wait for a gap in the traffic or at least make eye contact with the car driver so I know it’s safe for me to cross over.

Cyclists basically always have right of way over cars.

That's what I always do ditto when walking.

You should give way to the cyclist.

I’m a cyclist and this particular manoeuvre makes me nervous.

I know I have right of way, even if cycling on the road. I’d have the same right of way as a motorcycle and you wouldn’t turn left in front of them.

Cars still do it though.

Cyclist has right of way.

Honest, cyclists who just whizz across without checking must have a death wish.

Yes, I would give way if they were at the junction as per the new rules, but if you are approaching and they whizz up from behind and just shoot across, that's crazy. Nobody has eyes on the back of their head. If they're on the road with you, then you can check your mirrors and blind spot. If they're on a shared path further away from the road, there's a fair chance your view of them is likely to be obscured.

It's just dangerous and belligerent.

That’s why you look properly. If it was a bus lane would you just turn? It’s not different because it’s a cycle lane. If anyone is being dangerous and belligerent it’s the driver of the car failing to give way.

Yes, in both cases you should give way to the bike. I appreciate town planners don't always make it easy for anyone, but you are effectively crossing the bike's lane.

My DS was in this situation recently. He actually caused the cyclist to wobble and fall off his bike. Cyclist absolutely has priority and DS was definitely in the wrong (his renewal premium will prove this).

DS was turning into a side road across a cycle lane.

As a pedestrian, I wouldn’t dream of crossing a road without checking first. And I can’t believe a vulnerable cyclist would either. It’s in the Highway Code in black and white, im not trying to condone DS, but I think everyone has a responsibility to keep themselves as safe as possible on the roads.

As a cyclist I don’t trust car drivers and as a car driver I don’t trust cyclists. Keeps me alive.

Even taking cyclists and pedestrians out of it, if you’re a driver making a manoeuvre i.e. turning into or across traffic then you don’t have priority and must give way - just as if that were a bus lane or lane of moving cars that you were turning into or crossing. You’d stop and wait for a gap in the traffic or for somebody to allow you space. Vulnerable road users like cyclists and pedestrians should look and be aware, but as a driver your obligation is to be aware that they may not and always be prepared to give way.

Highway code was updated a few years ago to clarify Scenario 1. When turning into a new road, pedestrians, cyclists etc continuing down the road in a straight line have priority.

But what @Latenightreader is describing is a situation where cyclists are just continuing at speed. It's just not sensible is it ? Of course you should look before making a turn, but if a cyclist is behind you, and to the left, and on a path obscured by pedestrians or street furniture, then they can't just shoot across and assume the motorist has got a sixth sense.

Chances are you were not there when they looked and began the manoeuvre!

Anyway, I know this is AIBU....so people prefer a shouting match and will tell me for the next 10 pages I am not looking where I'm going and I'm wrong and blah blah.

@Boutonnière has the right approach.

I am a careful driver but the squillions of tailgating idiots I see daily are not. If cyclists just whizz across roads without taking care, well then they don't value their life.

Cyclists on the road do, and yes I always give way to them. What I'm not sure about is if the cyclepath fully on the pavement (separated from the road by a verge) have the same status as cyclists on the road (there are no markings on the road to make it clear) so should I be expecting cyclists not to stop.

The law changed in 2022. The links are in the thread. Yes, cyclists and pedestrians have the right of way at junctions.

It's actually quite scary that drivers are unaware of this. It was well publicised at the time.

Yes, that's exactly the situation. It is mostly used by people on the way to school at slowish speeds, but it is the people who whizzed up behind at speed who catch me out as it is so hard to see them coming. I just wish they'd slow down a bit rather than doing nearer 30 on a shared path!

Think of the cycle lane or shared path in the same way you do a bus lane, as the Highway Code instructs. If that were a bus lane on the inside, you’d (rightly) expect that a bus might be coming up on your inside from behind you and continuing onwards at speed without pausing at the junction in case you hadn’t seen them before you began making your manoeuvre across the lane.

For their own safety, most pedestrians and cyclists will stop or proceed with caution at a junction in these circumstances; but the Highway Code is clear that they do not have to. Therefore, for your own safety (and criminal record, because not realising you should, or not seeing isn’t a defence), treat the cycle lane or shared path on the inside as you would a bus lane on the inside.