Who has right of way? Bike lane crossing road

[Latenightreader]

I'm hoping someone can clarify matters for me as I've had this happen twice recently and I'd like to check if I'm doing something wrong. This is really not intended to be a cyclist bashing thread. It is long, sorry.

The area where I live has a fair number of shared pedestrian/bike paths on the pavement. When it comes to a junction I've always assumed that the cyclists should slow or stop (depending on visibility) and ensure nothing is coming before they cross the road, just as pedestrians do. Twice recently bikes have whizzed past me and an accident was narrowly avoided. I've attached a diagram (which I know can take a while to appear) to try to make it clearer. I've looked at the highway code and it is clear about if they were on the road, do I treat the pavement cycle path as part of the road? When I've biked I always stop (and will keep doing so) but should I expect others to go ahead?

Incident 1: I'm on the main road (20 zone) indicating to turn left. Cyclist is travelling in the same direction on the pavement cycle path which curves so you can only see about three car lengths behind along the path. They were going considerably faster than me at this point. I start to turn and they shoot across the road in front forcing me to brake hard. I am always careful to check before I turn because it's near a secondary school and kids walking don't always look before crossing, but this bike came up really fast and were not visible when I started the manoeuvre.

Incident 2: I'm approaching a different main road from a side road to turn right. A cyclist almost went into the bonnet because he zoomed across without checking there were cars coming. I was almost at a stop, but normally stop level with the road (where there's a white line) rather than before the dropped kerb. There are no road markings to indicate I should stop sooner, and visibility is not great (bushes, decent sized verge between path and road, plus road curve) so I always do stop.

Any thoughts?

Yes, they have the same status. You must give way to pedestrians, and cyclists, crossing the road at junctions, in all circumstances.

As my amazing driving instructor said, there's no such thing as right of way, it's about who has priority.

Regardless of priority (which pedestrians and cyclists crossing side roads over you have, if you bother to read the highway code) as the driver of the big heavy car you should be the one erring on the side of, y'know, not taking people out if you can avoid it.

You treat the cycle lane as any other lane on the road that you have to turn across.
You make the manoeuvre when it is safe to do so.

Genuinely its quite worrying that you don't know this.

Of course I'm always very cautious (I live in a place with a lot of bikes), but the lines of sight from both points make it near impossible to spot a cyclist traveling at 30mph at the point where I start to turn (at both points I come to a stop before I start the manoeuvre). The cycle lane is on the pavement and obscured by the curve in the road, and by bushes. If there is a high chance cyclists are going to be going straight through I'll have a chat with the local councillors to see if they can get the foliage cut back so the view is clearer.

This. As a cyclist, I think all drivers are out to kill me and when I’m driving, I think all cyclists have a death wish.

A similar junction to this near me has definite road markings indicating the cyclist has right of way.

No cyclist is going over 30mph.
Even 15 mph is bloody good going, speaking as someone who only just manages to reach an average speed of 12.6mph on rides.
But yes, do speak about your experiences and suggest safety measures.

Depends what the pavement markings say too. There is a shared pavement/cycle lane at a road I use and the cycle lane markings are clearly painted with give way at the junction.

I was travelling at 30mph in my car when I was overtaken by an ebike who was travelling in excess of 40mph.

Competent regular cyclists, pedal power only, can easily achieve 20/25mph

Those markings may pre-date the changes to the Highway Code.

Good point.

Road/pavement has recently been re-chipped and painted. Signs still up.

Wonder of it's due to the speed of the roads, 40mph into 20mph, and its a dual carriageway, which gives cars priority?

I severely doubt any cyclist will be travelling at 30mph on a shared path. Maybe on the road, in good conditions, no wind, at a push. but definitely not on a shared pavement. You absolutely should be giving way (as per the highway code) in this situation.

No.
On all roads (except motorways), vehicles turning are expected to give way to way to those on foot and on bike.

This

Amazing how many drivers don’t know this

For your incident 2, can you tell if the cycle lane has give way markings? Most do round here OR the minor road give way line is "behind" the cycle lane.

No cyclist is travelling at 30mph unless it is downhill or they are in a race. Stop exaggerating and go and read your Highway Code, specifically rules H2 and H3. It helps to remember that cycle lanes and footways are parts of the highway and the priority rules apply to them in the same way as the carriageway.

That ebike was blatantly illegal. And yes of course a decent club cyclist can average 20+ mph, and a lot faster in a sprint or downhill, but no one is doing that on a shared bike path.

It would be helpful to know what the road markings are. Can you find a satellite picture of the junction?

I agree with others that (subject to road markings) the car turning into the minor road should give way to the bike or a pedestrian continuing straight ahead. Although I have to say as a pedestrian (there are no bike lanes like this near me) no one seems to observe this rule so there is no way I would pelt across that junction at full speed on a bike.

The more vulnerable road user always has right of way.
At any junction where a minor road meets a main road, cars going in and out of the minor road turning off or on the main road should always give way to pedestrians and cyclists who are crossing the minor road.
After the first time this happened, you should (if you are a good driver) have increased your awareness and been more cautious to look out for people on the shared path and be prepared to stop and give way to them. That there was a second "near miss" is a failure on your part.

I recently had a holiday in Amsterdam and used a cycle to get around the city. It was truly wonderful the way that drivers treated cyclists as fellow road users who have every right to use the road. At any junction if a car or pedestrian has to pause momentarily they are not inconvenienced, but a cycle works on momentum and if a cycle has to pause at each junction on a main road with multiple junctions, their whole journey is doubled in duration as it takes a long time to get speed back up, whereas if the cars pause for 2 seconds to let the bike past safely, they literally only lose that 2 seconds.

It’s not sensible for cyclists to continue at speed in the way described. The points you made are even noted in the rules for cyclists about crossing at junctions. It’s obvious why (or at least should be). There are rules for pedestrians and cyclists about crossing at junctions that have to be applied in conjunction with rules like H3, which sets out what drivers of motor vehicles must do when they’re turning out of or into junctions. It’s one of those, “yes but there’s more, read on,” things. I think the emphasis on this hasn’t been the best.

Here’s rule 76 of The Highway Code for example, which relates to cyclists going straight ahead at junctions:

“If you are going straight ahead at a junction, you have priority over traffic waiting to turn into or out of the side road, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise (see Rule H3).” [the priority hierarchy rule]

Rule 76 then immediately continues… “Check that you can proceed safely, particularly when approaching junctions on the left alongside stationary or slow-moving traffic. Watch out for drivers intending to turn across your path. Remember the driver ahead may not be able to see you, so bear in mind your speed and position in the road.”

Cyclists who whizz down roads, shoot across junctions and haven’t reduced their speed when approaching a junction shouldn’t be doing that. If you’re cycling like that, are you really executing “check that you can proceed safely?” Doubtful. The bit about, “Remember the driver ahead may not be able to see you, so bear in mind your speed and position in the road,” is self-explanatory. It covers a lot: drivers’ blind spots; the fact there could be street furniture or other things obscuring the view; the possibility the driver already started turning because there was no other road user to give priority to when they began the manoeuvre etc.

It also comes down to, or at least should do, self-preservation. Rule H3 is not going to be much comfort if you’ve ended up colliding and coming off your bike because you weren’t adapting your speed/position and/or checking when approaching a junction.

They may do but the markings could also still apply and fall under rules like this that are in the Highway Code:

Rule 76 of the Highway Code - rule for cyclists going straight ahead at junctions

“If you are going straight ahead at a junction, you have priority over traffic waiting to turn into or out of the side road, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise…”
(italics added by me)