Confused by call from school

[scorpiogirly]

So my daughter who is 7 just went back today in year 3.

I get a call half an hour before I'm due to collect her to ask me if it is okay if the teacher who helps out takes my dd in the mornings in a group of about 10 to do maths. Apparently not that she's going to be taught anything different, just taught slower. What the hell does this mean? It's her first day back and they have never said anything like this before and she has always seemed fine with maths.

They also always tend to have mixed classes. When I questioned it, apparently it is nothing to do with ability. But strangely, they have split two year 3 classes and 2 year 4 classes and mixed them together. Whats the point of that?

This has then resulted in there being year 4 kids in your DD’s class that due to their age are much quicker at maths. Teaching a subject like maths where the teacher tends to work at the pace of the slowest children is now causing an issue in the mixed class for the year 4’s.

This isn't what happens. They are all taught at the same pace. New learning for Y4 is the same pace as new learning for Y3. They don't work at the pace of the slowest children.

It’s an intervention group - it could be a few things . If her past reports show that she is not at the expected level , or is only just at it, that may be why . You would have been told the level she is working at during parents evenings and in her report.

If she is at expected , then it is highly likely that she is easily distracted and may need a smaller group so that she can work - this could be that she’s quiet and it’s a chatty class , that there are characters in the class who are distracting others and your daughter is one who is affected by this.

It could even be that your daughter is doing very well and showing promise and they believe with a bit of quiet and a little more targeted intervention she could do even better , maybe to go into exceeding.

Either way, the school are doing their job and adapting the teaching / environment so that your daughter can reach her potential. Absolutely no reason to be angry about this - be angry if they don’t support her when she needs it.

Honestly I would tey and see the positives in this. Year 3 seems to be a key transition period between infants amd juniors and the pace of work does ratchet up. From personal experiwnce, my DD grasped new mathematical concepts at a slower pace than my DS, however once mastered she was very able at maths. Being part of a slower paced group at times worked very well for her. Ultimately they both achieved the same high grade for maths at GCSE.

Those mixes are normal for schools that mix classes.

Typically reception doesn’t mix if they can help it. Years 1 and 2 mix as they are Key Stage 1. Then years 3 and 4 mix as they are key stage 2. You wouldn’t mix year 2 and year 3 as they are in different key stages.

They did this with my son last year with reading. It was hugely beneficial and he's keeping up now.

Sounds like you’d have been on the case if they’d told you in July OP, but a lot of parents wouldn’t, so it’s pointless as a catch up exercise. Better to let them come back to a new term and scoop them together. I’m sure your DD will soon be flying.

I didn't do that and I was a teacher. My daughter read books because she liked reading but that was it.

You know those INSET days parents hate? One of the things teachers do is look at all the assessments, data, target setting and decide what needs to be done to improve results. They wouldn't have done that by the end of last term, that's why it's happening now.

Things have changed drastically in the 10 years since I retired then. We had to differentiate all our planning 3 ways.

But if they are pulling out 10 of the children from a mixed class then that sounds like it would be most of the year 3 kids in that class.

I would definitely ask if the group is being taught by a qualified teacher and if not then I would (and did) ask for my child to be in the main class.
Yes, some TAs have teaching qualifications, yes some of them are brilliant and better than the actual teacher, but most of the time they are not.
The study that a pp referred to was the DISS Study (2009) which found that children who received support from a TA actually made less progress than those who didn’t.

How long ago?

she needs more help so you could not moan. Be thankful

Unlikely! It'll be a mix. There will be kids who need a pre teach in both year groups.

Y4s do not grasp a new concept quicker than Y3s as neither will have seen that concept before (unless self taught) so both groups can and do have kids who need longer to grasp concepts.

Some children fall behind on their reading and maths skills if they don’t do some work over the summer holidays. Would you rather your daughter continue to fall behind the rest of her peers? The TA will probably be following the lesson plan made by the teacher.

Yes it has. It used to be differentiated but now that is not the way to teach. It is all the same so all kids have the opportunity in every lesson.

The curriculum says they work through at the same pace. It was meant to be like that from 1982 but hey, we are the UK who never listen to advice! ha!

She has the ability, she just needs it to be taught differently (as do 9 other kids). The school are trying to help and providing extra support.

Have you not asked the school why they make up the classes this way rather than continually being confused by it?

If you look at her school report, for maths and English there will be a bit where it says met, exceeded or working towards. Some schools also have "working well below" or "working well above" which is slightly more helpful- otherwise "working towards" can mean anything from a Y6 who can't count past 20 to a Y4 who is a bit slow on their times tables.

I wouldn't worry about it. My daughter had extra support for maths in year 4 because she didn't grasp some concepts.

Now in year 8 she's doing fine and in the 2nd set out of 6 - it's not her best subject but she's not struggling.

The elephant in the room of course, is that all children are different and giving them all the same work fails a large chunk of them. Some of them will be able to do the work without any input whatsoever and sit through unnecessary explanations. Some of them would be better off doing something easier, but no, the wisdom of the current curriculum is we ignore prior gaps in knowledge and keep them with the rest of the class.

Couple of options on the not lack of ability.

The first is that she is fine and as expected but that they others are really fast, maybe because it’s a mixed age class or maybe she just isn’t as confident.

Second is that the group is actually all girls who aren’t performing as well as they could in a mixed group because the boys are more confident. I used to help with a group of year 3 girls for maths - they were all working as expected but didn’t like to fail so didn’t put their hands up in class and if asked always said I don’t know - was better than getting the answer wrong in their minds. They were also obsessed about neatly laying out their work to such a degree that they worked really really slowly.

My role was to encourage them to try stuff and remind them that they did know the answers but that getting an answer wrong wasn’t the end of the world and to make them see that beautiful laid out work, if it was only 1/3 of the work set wasn’t as important as finishing (or making a good attempt) even if it wasn’t all aligned beautifully.

I agree. It’s a good thing I guess, but if you’d known before the hols, or they’d flagged at a parents evening, at least you’d have a heads up and be able to do a bit of extra stuff at home.

It really doesnt at all as the teaching is adaptive to their needs and they arent all expected to complete the same things! If you understood how it worked then you wouldn't argue this point.

The prior gaps are the reason for the adaptive teaching and pre teach! 🤦‍♂️

Did you ask why? They sometimes do the KS1 SATs very discreetly in May of Year 2. I’m surprised they asked really, rather than just saying it’s happening because she needs a little more support.

How long ago was I a teacher? I retired 10 years ago. My daughter is 45 she didn't even have home work at primary school (or wear a uniform or have to do SATs.). Happy days. She has a degree and two post grad qualifications btw.