Confused by call from school

[scorpiogirly]

So my daughter who is 7 just went back today in year 3.

I get a call half an hour before I'm due to collect her to ask me if it is okay if the teacher who helps out takes my dd in the mornings in a group of about 10 to do maths. Apparently not that she's going to be taught anything different, just taught slower. What the hell does this mean? It's her first day back and they have never said anything like this before and she has always seemed fine with maths.

They also always tend to have mixed classes. When I questioned it, apparently it is nothing to do with ability. But strangely, they have split two year 3 classes and 2 year 4 classes and mixed them together. Whats the point of that?

I'd be a bit annoyed too, OP, but I probably wouldn't say anything yet. You could have been working on her maths over the holiday if it was a concern.

I wouldn't worry though, I'd just get a book of those 10 minutes Maths challenges aimed at her age range and work though two or three a week reinforcing the key concepts.

@scorpiogirly but you said you are raging about it?!

Who is with the other 20 children?

Ask for a meeting and clarify what is going on? Is she behind or is it to do with taking longer to grasp concepts this sounds most likely when she is still being taught the same concepts. If just finished ks1 possibly previous teacher was asked to identify children who may need further consolidation before moving fully into ks2 work

Deliaskis is right i think in saying that there prob happens to be some extra time/ staff/ resources available to provide this intervention and the new teacher consulted with the old teacher to come up with a group of children likely to benefit. I expect as it's a morning intervention, it'll be pre teaching of that day's maths work so the group gets a little head start.

They didn't say that the group was down to ability. It was the classes being split wasn't down to ability.

It sounds to me like this has to do with a mixed class. So say Form 1 and 2 are together. I am in lreland so may not use the correct terms. That teacher has to cover 2 maths programmes so the 10 of one grade is being taught by some kind of support teacher. This is good so both grades get the full attention of a teacher. But she needs the approval of the parents. No issue!

They put the higher achievers in one year with the lower achievers of the year above together when my step-daughter was at school. If she's being taught with the year above take it as a compliment.

This.
OP if you are worried about her needing help just practice maths at home too, ask her teacher how and how often you should do maths at home. Maybe 10 min every day after dinner?

The offer of an intervention will not be from day one. The teacher will have their assessment data from last year and will have spoken to their teacher from last year to who may have flagged it. Either way it's brilliant they are being offered so early.

I'd have to see the details of this study.

Typically, the teacher teaches to the middle group of kids. The higher end get given extra/harder work and expected to teach themselves with a bit of extra help from the teacher if they need it. The lower group work separately with the TA because they need adult support to access it.

The group with the TA are already making slower progress which is why they need the TA. Unless this has been accounted for the study results are obvious.

OP- Has she been meeting ARE all through school? It is strange that she would suddenly be put in this group for extra support if she's met expectations in maths previously.

If not, you may have misunderstood previous reports. When I was a new teacher I had a few occasions sitting in front of a parent and talking about their child and the support in place for them only for the parent to suddenly ask why their child needed support. I'd incorrectly assumed that the parent was aware that their child was miles behind and needing significant support in class, when actually, they'd read "Working towards expected levels" as "About average" and had no idea.

What I don't understand though is that this is the first I have heard of any problems with her maths, yet seemingly on the first day back, it's glaringly obvious. If I had known we could have worked on it over the holidays.

TBH we found this a lot - flip flopping on where there was an issue or not often one at start and gone by end with confusion inbetween - and not having any suggestions of what we could do at home to help.

I myself went form bottom suppot group to an extension in primary - with no explination really to my DP withing two terms. Both kids and I have underlying issues - dyslexa, dspraxia and other things.

It's possible they've done some setting tests on first day - though they'd be quick of the mark if they have or more likely there something form last teacher and term that this one wants to address before it becomes a bigger issue.

I'd try and grab the teacher to ask a few more questions but I'd also try and do more maths at home over next year as well.

Make your mind up, 10 minutes ago you were "raging" 🤔
Seriously just talk to the school about it, they'll be able to give you a better explanation than hundreds of random uninvolved people.

I used to help the low ability children in a classroom. I am not a teacher but a teacher doesn't just teach, they assess levels and comprehension which is way out of my remit. I have a degree, I have specific qualifications for helping in schools and an SEND qualification.

I was given a plenary ahead of the lesson, so I knew what they were teaching and how they were going to do it. The children were then taught by the teacher and when they moved onto independent work I took my table of 4 or 5 children and basically kept them on task and showed them they could do this. Just walking them through it again. At year 3/4 there does seem to be a point where children start to become very aware of their ability and literally shut down with the whole I can't do it attitude. There is a name for this but it won't come to me. It is where you can't do one question so you assume you can't do any of it.

I would be very happy that my child was receiving that kind of teaching as honestly in a class of 30 children even with 2 adults it is hard to get round everybody. We had a system in place to make sure everyone had done the first step and had their work marked before they moved on to the next step. Pretty much what @InMyShowgirlEra said, teachers teach to middle ability.

It might be that she's average or above average so will help pull others up. But, like others stated, go ask for clarification. You don't have to agree with a suggestion or a question.

What subject out of interest?

This isn’t true. Some children have something called “Slow Processing”. One of my children has it - His intelligence/attainment is very high (Greater depth in SATS, passed the 11+, top set in Maths at Grammar School) but his brain processes mathematics/numbers at a much slower speed than most other children.

@scorpiogirly chat to school and ask if this might be a possibility. Our Primary School SENCO was able to test our son for it.

All primary school work in core subjects is differentiated by ability.

Your child’s school has decided that there are enough children working at a similar pace to make it worthwhile taking them as a smaller group. I think the only thing you need to ask is whether this is seen as a short term catch up after the holidays to get them back on track solution or something more longterm.

Why are you so upset OP? Even if they told you months ago my sense is you’d still be ‘baffled’ and want to know ‘why I’m only finding out for the first time now’. Whenever they tell you, it will be the first time you’re hearing it.

Presumably they did some post Summer break work and saw that your DD is struggling to keep up. It’s great the teacher called to explain in person and actually asked you if it would be ok. I’m honestly not sure what else you want or expect. Also, she’s Y3 so no need to stress. DS was in a catch up group for reading in Y1 because he was a slow reader. He is now 9yrs old and has a reading age of 12/13 according to his last report.

This is likely to be linked to staffing. It is quite possible that there was no slack in timetables and staff allocation to guarantee intervention for the students last term.. and rather than tell parents in the summer, risking disappointment and then constant requests for what was promised they waited till now to announce it. Budgets are tight and staff do want to help I would be pleased that this was able to be offered at all.

Sounds like they are on the ball and giving extra attention. I assume she is at the lower end of normal range or you would have heard about it before now.

They might not have had the facility set up last year. also
A. they might have wanted your child to have a normal relaxed holiday without "working" at school subjects
B. They might not understand why she has an issue with maths so there would have been no point asking you to work on x y or z.
Honestly I have no idea why you are raging.

I wonder if the school didn't allocate the extra teaching resource before the summer holiday because they were still working out numbers (pupils and teachers). The decision to include your DD in this group, receiving additional support, may have just been made. So today was the first opportunity to tell you. Can you message/email the class teacher for more information?

They told the OP mixing the classes was not due to ability not the maths group. There are lots of reasons for doing this mainly uneven numbers in year groups.

If OP 's daughter is getting help in maths it is surely a good thing. They will analysed data, targets etc from last year and made the decision on this basis. If the person taking the group is not a qualified teacher the class teacher will have set the work.

It might not be about ability. I ended up in the B stream because I had a speech impediment so that I mispronounced words badly, aged 8. This was taken to mean I could not read (I learned to read at 4) and I was put in the remedial group as a result. My mother explained about the impediment but the 'remedial' label stuck - which resulted in my failing (just, apparently) the 11+ (yes, that old) because the B stream were not taught how to pass it.