To be angry with people who describe the old age pension as a "benefit"?

[FlubandSlub]

When I started my working life, aged 16, I entered into an agreement with the government for them to save my pension money for me. It was stated that it would be until I turned 60 which would be when I could starting drawing my old age pension. Even though I made my FULL pension payment contributions by the time I turned 51 the government has decided it will not abide by the original agreement and that it is going to keep MY money until I am 67. Probably hoping I will die before then.

Consider this, not only did I contribute to my pension, my employer did too. It totalled 15% of my income before taxes. If you averaged only £15 000 p a. over your working life, that's close to £220,500. Read that again. Did you see anywhere that the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money that I and my employer put in a Government bank to ensure that I would have a retirement pension. It was not money that the Government had any right to spend on other things! Upon reaching the age to take it back they've started to call the money we paid in a "benefit" !

If you calculate the future invested value of £2500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (that's less than what the govtpays on the money that it borrows from overseas), after 49 years of working you'd have
£892,919.98.

This money was supposed to be in a securely locked box, not to be used as part of the Government's general funds.
Successive governments borrowed the money to spend on other things but that doesn't make my pension some kind of charity or handout!! If a private pension company did this we would sue them. Unfortunately the Government can legally rob us blind and get away with it

IT'S MY MONEY! IT IS NOT A BENEFIT!!

There’s no guarantee that a state pension won’t be paid by the time you qualify - maybe means tested or otherwise limited but hopefully still there. PIP is not means tested and nor is it likely to be. It’s a benefit intended to contribute towards the extra cost of disability and as such is universal. It’s also not a benefit which is awarded as a result of being unable to work - it has nothing to do with the ability to work, that’s the intention of sickness benefits currently being incorporated into UC. And PIP is not payable beyond retirement age unless you have claimed before that age and have an ongoing claim beyond it.

Cobblers ? Really ? The fact is that your contributions towards state pension are not called pension contributions, they are called national insurance contributions. State pension is a contributory benefit paid from the national insurance fund, which pays other contributory benefits, including sickness benefits and also contributes to the NHS. Google is your friend here so before you post from ignorance maybe use it.

i know that. but in the next 15-20 years that will change. There will be some sort of absolutely minimum, means tested benefit for people who absolutely cannot work anymore and have absolutely nothing in terms of assets. Otherwise there will be nothing.

You are no way being unreasonable OP. Am in EXACTLY same position am fed up with people referring to this as a benefit. Each generation pays in for the current elders is how this works and we are all entitled to this when we are older and no longer work. I think you would get more sympathy from gransnet to be honest as the age group on mumsnet is younger so would not understand. The gov.like to call it a benefit but if it was we would be entitled to all the addition things that go with that (as those on pension credit are).but we are not = its not a benefit. Its a pre paid entitlement.

@Grendel7 I’m 63 and realise it’s a contributory benefit - most people ( women in particular) have not paid in nearly as much as they get out of it - and that’s not allowing for the fact that NI covers off other aspects, NHS , maternity pay, other benefits over a lifetime.- and there are a great many people who have actually paid next to nothing in too over the years - and yet are still getting pension or pension credit, pip, attendance allowance etc - I’m sorry some people get their knickers in a twist at the word ‘benefit ‘ - but that is what it is - albeit one that many have contributed too - but many people too simply haven’t contributed much . Look how many of us have elderly mothers who have done jack shit or next to in terms of paying NI , often since their early 20s - it’s a lot of people.

But it's not "pre paid" as the vast majority of people have paid in nowhere near the amount they'll hope to get out even with the highest possible rate of return on the value of NIC they've paid. NIC is simply a tax. It's not some kind of savings scheme.

You could call it insurance, but with insurance you have to pay the premiums until the moment you come to claim. So most people will pay in far more than they get out, which is the nature of insurance. If you stop paying your insurance premium, then if something nasty happens, you get no payout, however many years you were paying in before you stopped paying. So it's not really insurance either.

Let's face it. It's a tax. And state pension is a benefit.

Am in EXACTLY same position am fed up with people referring to this as a benefit.

Not wanting something to be true doesn't make it not true.

A rose by any other name and all that.

@SerendipityJane the problem is they associate the word ‘benefit’ with ‘we are not those kind of people’ - strangely though the people I know who have a real issue with that word have no problem mentally when it comes to claiming pip , attendance allowance, carers allowance etc - either for their parents or themselves or a partner. Still benefits, however they dress it up - I appreciate for a lot of older people my age and upwards the word benefit has some kind of stigma - it kind of has mental associations with families who sat around doing nowt and waiting for the giro to pop through the door and I think that’s a big part of the issue . They need to adjust the mindset to the fact it and was always just another tax — and that is why I think when people go on about the high tax rates elsewhere in Europe they need to allow for the fact many of these places don’t have NI , they do have different things you can pay into related to sickness and unemployment, but it’s a lot less than NI. We didn’t have council tax either when we lived in Denmark for a while. Personally I think we go about things arse over face here and create complications . My own view is I would raise allowances somewhat, particularly at that Middling’ level, , tax much higher , do away with NI and council tax , bang a lot into social housing of all types and funding childcare well , regardless of income. I saw the difference it made.

I retired from the NHS at 55…that’s me at the end 😉 no physical impairments whatsoever thankfully!

And then people wonder why the NHS has run out of money....

😂😂😂😂😂😂 yes! It’s all down to me!

the problem is they associate the word ‘benefit’ with ‘we are not those kind of people’ -

You get to a point where you are not responsible for others idiocy.

I'm past pension age and I regard it as a benefit. I'm grateful to receive it and saddened that younger generations are not likely to be able to receive what I do.

Why feel sorry for them ? Looks likely they will vote for it.

That's a really simplistic way of looking at the situation.
What choices do they have, either politically or economically? There is no good choice when the UK (and other) economies are so badly damaged. The demographic issue, partly caused by the poor policies, is only making things harder.

Sorry, but I grew up learning not to put fires out with petrol.

It'll happen whoever we vote for. There's not really much choice given it will be entirely unaffordable. It's not affordable now, but my kids will be repaying that debt...
Failure to plan means it is inevitable.

State Pension is a contribution based benefit rather than a means tested benefit like Pension Credit is. There are similar examples in the working age population such as Jobseekers and Employment and Support Allowance are now only allowed for those with enough national insurance credits while those on a low income can claim Universal Credit, some manage to claim both.

In what way is anyone suggesting pouring petrol on fires @SerendipityJane?

I'm another person in my 60s who grasps the concept that the state pension IS a benefit.
But then, I am not affronted by the word 'benefit' as I don't read the Daily Fail.

I'm very glad I am lucky enough to be have been born in a Country that has a welfare state and that (unlike when my parents were children) there is a safety net for anyone who needs it at any stage in their life. I see no shame in someone needing to claim a benefit because of their life circumstances. Of course it isn't perfect, but I'd still rather it was there.

I'm glad that when we are too old to work, we still live in a society where we are able to claim that benefit.

"I'm not happy with Labour"
"I'm not happy with Tories"
"I'm going to vote Brexit Reform".

I think it will inevitable become a means tested benefit in the coming years. Probably set at something like income of £100k at first (the current threshold for free child care), or £60k (the current threshold for child allowance). It'll be set at a relatively high level of income so whichever govt doesn't get the backlash seen with the WFA, but probably won't increase with inflation, so "fiscal drag" will mean that more and more people become ineligible for it as the years pass and "other" incomes that are inflationary will start to catch up, such as occupational pensions, buy to let profits, investment portfolio income, or even part time employments/self employments.

I see! I don't support Reform myself but I can understand why many people do. They just want change and feel let down by both the Tory and Labour parties.
To me, this is nothing to do with which party is in power at this late stage, when the issues have been deliberately ignored for decades. It is clearly an unaffordable benefit in its current form.

The problem is @rainingsnoring it k when push comes to shove a great many wouldn’t much like the kind of ‘change/reform’ that Farage and his bunch of ‘substandard masons’ might offer - be it health service, benefits cuts ( ooh no, I didn’t mean benefits that might affect me or my family) , they might offer higher personal allowances but then cut other things totally to the bone - people might agree with the ‘send em all back’ rhetoric but the only way to achieve that to some extent is leaving ECHR which then gets rid of a load of other rights too for citizens that I think people wouldn’t be keen on- I’m really not sure what people expected, Labour have been left in a very difficult economic situation post covid and Brexit and Tory policies coming home to roost . Farage in my opinion started the accelerated rot - he was the one busy saying how successful it would all be out the EU ( cheeky too for a bloke with an EU pension and residency all in place) It clearly isn’t and was an extremely pointless exercise - still keep blaming Muslims and I’m sure enough people are gullible enough to fall for it all again -

I see plenty of posts on Facebook saying "cut benefits for younger people /stop the boats and we'd be able to retire at 60". 🙄