To be angry with people who describe the old age pension as a "benefit"?

[FlubandSlub]

When I started my working life, aged 16, I entered into an agreement with the government for them to save my pension money for me. It was stated that it would be until I turned 60 which would be when I could starting drawing my old age pension. Even though I made my FULL pension payment contributions by the time I turned 51 the government has decided it will not abide by the original agreement and that it is going to keep MY money until I am 67. Probably hoping I will die before then.

Consider this, not only did I contribute to my pension, my employer did too. It totalled 15% of my income before taxes. If you averaged only £15 000 p a. over your working life, that's close to £220,500. Read that again. Did you see anywhere that the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money that I and my employer put in a Government bank to ensure that I would have a retirement pension. It was not money that the Government had any right to spend on other things! Upon reaching the age to take it back they've started to call the money we paid in a "benefit" !

If you calculate the future invested value of £2500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (that's less than what the govtpays on the money that it borrows from overseas), after 49 years of working you'd have
£892,919.98.

This money was supposed to be in a securely locked box, not to be used as part of the Government's general funds.
Successive governments borrowed the money to spend on other things but that doesn't make my pension some kind of charity or handout!! If a private pension company did this we would sue them. Unfortunately the Government can legally rob us blind and get away with it

IT'S MY MONEY! IT IS NOT A BENEFIT!!

Yes but abolished for everyone in around 40 years. No state funded pensions in any disguise would be available. Individuals would be on their own and would fund private pensions with the saved NI contributions.

Please do not make out that ChatGPT is an
authority on any matter. It is a predictive text model on steroids. It can be completely incorrect and results should not be blindly accepted as truth

Yes, I agree.

When the pension was introduced, the first people who received it hadn't 'paid in' either. Everyone ignores that bit.

The same people usually scream about being 'taxed' twice on personal pension contributions. The tax relief on contributions refunded into the fund by the government often gets ignored, denied or misunderstood 🙄

I truly wish it was a ring fence pot, as with many other things my generation has been stitched up by the generations before. I’m sure there will be no state pension when I come to retire.

Yes I agree OP

But if your NIC was ringfenced for your own future pension, other taxes would have to increase to cover pensions of the current pensioners, so you'd be worse off.

“It looks accurate” and actually being accurate are two different things. It may be accurate, but it may well not be. ChatGPT is often incorrect. It’s a language learning model. Ask chatGPT to confirm if it is always accurate or not

How very condescending. What a nasty person you are.

The Canada Pension Plan is similar to the UK old age pension. Today's workers are funding today's pensioners.

Unless you earn, and pay tax on a wage of about £40k or more every single year of your working life you are not a net contributor. You cost the country more than you take out. This figure is higher for people with children.

For most people the state pension is a benefit as they have never ‘paid in’ more than they have cost.

"stitched up"?

My grandfather was one of the first to receive the state pension. He left school age 12 (as most did of his generation) then did back breaking labour (as most did at that time), survived two world wars with rations etc then retired at 65 with a lower life expectancy than today after 53 years work.

The current retirement age is 68 for younger people. But this generation generally don't enter work til they are 21 so that makes 47 years work. But that work isn't generally back breaking and life expectancy much longer.

All is all you will get your pension much sooner, after an easier working life and will draw it much longer. So quit with the stitched up nonsense.

I am a state pensioner, I paid into the pot and now I benefit from it, that is all it means. Don't be so touchy about the word.

Then only give the state pension to net contributors. Huge savings there.

My point is, you don't need to have paid a single penny in NI contributions to build up an NI record entitling you to state pension benefits. Claiming certain benefits - including child benefit - gives you NI credits even if you don't work. That was what I meant when I said it's based on the record rather than the contributions.

As per usual, first response nails it. It is, unfortunately, technically a benefit. You have just paid taxes through your working life to support public services and the pensions of the pensioners of the day. That’s why my generation is screwed because by the time we reach pensionable age, there’s going to be more people who need a state pension than young people can afford to subsidise. But if you reach pensionable age and you need it, then it’s there as a benefit you can claim.

None of us have been 'stitched up' by the generations that have gone before.
We may all, however, have been 'stitched up' by the successive governments of the last six, or so, decades.
And the fact that the younger generations blame the old, and the older generations blame the young, just goes to show quite how successful said governments have been in divide and conquer tactics that mean we're not all united in pointing the finger firmly at them, instead.

I appreciate this, and tbh we’re not disagreeing. I think you’re overthinking my comment because OP is speaking specifically about money that has left their pay (contributions) and feeling as though they have saved to achieve the pension - hence it not being a benefit. And OP is wrong, it is a benefit. And my comment was simply saying that the state pension is considered a contributory benefit (because you need to have a certain number of years of contributions / credits in lieu of) in order to receive it in full. There’s a number of reasons someone qualifies for the credits, but they’re never automatic. But the contributions made / credits on record, impact the final amount someone qualifies for.

The solution to not having enough people paying into the pension for current pensioners is for people to have more babies - but they dont want to do that either. They just seem to want to moan,which is so negative and unproductive.

I disagree with the OP. I'm past state pension age.

I’m not receiving pension, but I don’t view people who do receive it as ‘benefit’ claimants. But unfortunately atm, younger generations are looking for someone to blame for the current situation the country is in in respect of finance shortfall. As there are an increasing amount of people claiming disability and other benefits, they’re not going to bite the hand that feeds them, so they’ve nominated pensioners and ‘boomers’ as their scapegoats. I certainly view someone receiving state pension as different to someone receiving benefits for example mental health issues, or those who choose not to work as a lifestyle choice.

It can be inaccurate but it’s has done pretty well here.

I’m a pensioner. I don’t care a jot that it’s called a benefit 🤷🏼‍♀️ why would I? That’s exactly what it is.

First post nails it then filling posts expand on the explanation.
Your pension contributions are not a savings account. Sorry to disappoint

It works exactly the same way as how you pay NI to be eligible for job seekers if you ever need it.

They are both benefits.

I used to work for The Pension Service which is part of DWP and we were always told to tell people that their State pension is an entitlement not a benefit.