Is The IMF taking Over perhaps just what the country needs

[WaitingInForMyFoodShopping]

Ok bear with me. This sounds like an idiotic thing to say because if the IMF are involved it means the country is officially in a mess and the IMF will slash spending and enforce their own budgets and rules. So anyone on benefits might lose them, NHS funding will likely go down, same for the police force etc

It just occurred to me today that the country is in a complete mess and there isn't really any end in sight.

Headlines today - I didn't read the detail but I am just getting more angry, helpless feeling and frustrated and want 'somebody' who has some balls to step in and say enough. Things change from today. Todays headlines are rising taxes, 1/10 high school kids on benefits, families of migrants can claim benefits from day 1 even if they don't speak english.

Now i will caveat this by saying the housing market does need sorted but lets be honest that's not what they are trying to do here - it's just about raising taxes. I also say there is another articles claiming ' a crackdown on bring families into Britain' - something that made me snort with derision giving the whole small boats/protests going on just now.

I mean lets just get to the point. Does ANYONE think RR/KS are able to fix this mess. I know they didn't cause it. I know they have been in office less than a year but if we give them another year are they able to fix it. I personally don't think so. It is going to need someone very tough to brave the mess and take it in hand (Maggie Thatcher where are you now).
So what are we left with - voting Reform - which I have joked about doing but i don't actually think that is the way to go. That's borne out of desperation. So who is going to fix it then.

AIBU to think a complete reset, painful as it will be by the IMF is just what the country needs?

House prices drop unexpectedly amid property tax fears - latest updates

The ‘ludicrous’ migrant family rule pushing councils to breaking point

One in 10 secondary schoolchildren on disability benefits

I've just discovered some heavenly part bake rolls in Sainsbos. Well worth a punt.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-seeded-rolls-taste-the-difference-x4-75g

I opposed that particular bill as it wasn't fit for purpose. Hth.

What was wrong with it? cut 5bn ... job done, esp with less claims going fwd.

I'm not going to derail op's thread with a drawn out bun fight over welfare. Two points I will make are than a) I don't agree with welfare being awarded according to the date rather than the condition b) I don't agree with the suggested changes to points on PIP as it would have left some people in genuine serious need without help.
As I said earlier, you would not take my opinions seriously anyway so there is no point.

No i would because on benefits, i'm more to the right than you think, other people are paying for them, they have to offer vfm and encourage, where possible, to get people back in work.

But you ve hit the nail on the head with Welfare reform, it will always be unfair for some.

You re right though, is a derail, so we'll leave it there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c0ez8wj275zo

Have a listen to this. Farage in the USA.

I can google this but I just thought I'd ask here since we are talking about benefits getting cut.

There was a time in Britain where there was no NHS. Before NHS if you could afford a doctor you got one out and paid and if not then I guess you got sicker till you recovered or died or were left impaired in some way.

I'm sure there was also a time then where there was no welfare state. So what did disabled/sick/unemployed people do then? I am guessing families took care of each other more, they lived more cramped in together. I also know there used to be a thing called 'the workhouse' which you could go to if you were poor for basic food/bed. I think people did everything they could to avoid it so it was sort of last resort (I remember this from stuff my mum said).

So we have all got used to the security of the welfare state but what happened before or have I answered it already ie family or workhouse.

I just wondered if there was anything at all that could be 'rescued' from the past to help with the ways things are now ie cut the huge benefit bill

I'm not suggesting a workhouse again as they were meant to be awful places but for people with no food/money/shelter could their be an upgraded version of the workhouse where you could go to get back on your feet? Would it be cheaper than current benefit system.

I guess I am going to get alot of flack for this but at the moment we give people benefits and they spend them on whatever they want. I guess this system meant people got basics given ie shelter, food, work to earn it but no actual money to spend. Or is the idea just too silly for words now and no updated modern version would work (just trying to think outside of the box)

What did people do with their house when they went into the workhouse or had it been repossessed by then and they were on the streets.
What happened to disabled children when their parents died and there was no welfare state. Did they go to orphanages.

Sorry turning this into a cross between a history lesson and a benefit debate.

Is there any half way point between 'how it used to be' pre benefit state and the 'over the top soft touch benefit system we have now'

Good attempt, but no cigar from me.

Anyway the point I am trying to make is we are all quite soft and spoiled nowadays. So when I was a kid there was no central heating and houses were freezing with single glazing and ice on the windows.

Now we think that would be inhumane to go back to that and yet that is how millions of britons lived in the seventies and yes we were cold but we didn't die we just got used to it.

I mean if we can't afford the current welfare state we have to cut quite alot of it or go to a completely different system.

If you couldn't afford a house with central heating then yes you would live in one without central heating and adapt. Not ideal but if that was all you could afford.

Hopefully you all know what I am trying to say re rewinding the benefit system back to something we can afford and dig our selves out of the debt hole/repay the debt.

Wow do people think so little of disabled people that we can be shoved into a workhouse that is not really a workhouse. Out of sight and out of mind.
Not everyone can get back on their feet.

I honestly cant believe you think that is a suitable solution. I guess you are not disabled or know people who are.

What? Are you saying just no to any revised, reduced benefit system?

We can't afford the one we have plus we have to repay all this huge debt.

So what we can afford sounds like it will be quite basic.

I was just trying to think how do you stop people being homeless/starving but keep the bill as low as possible and also do the bare minimum so they are very motivated to get back on their feet.

I bet a heck of alot more people would be back in work in a jiffy. It would help growth too.

Yes I know this is controversial - but the welfare state is actually a very recent thing and it clearly cannot continue the way it is.

The upgraded workhouse (so say an unemployed basic hostel or something) would be for the unemployed or say people with depression where they can get jobs and get back to work.

For people in wheelchairs/downs syndrome there would have to be something else - residential hospitals where they could be looked after more cheaply than the current sick benefits?

Okay I am being daft but what did a disabled person do when there was no benefit state because it is quite a recent thing.

Assume you’ve read this shite in the daily mail and want farage to come rescue you. No wonder the country is in turmoil if this is the intellect. Jesus wept.

You cant motivate someone to be less disabled. And you cant motivate employers to employ disabled people either.

I live alone. You would remove my benefits and remove me from my home and make me live in a workhouse until my autism goes away. Ok.

If you think of the NHS being privatized which we all know is happening gradually then we do actually go back to how it used to be pre NHS ie if you can afford a doctor you go. If you can't afford the private fees then what? You don't go and suffer and die.

I mean we are moving back to that aren't we for the NHS.

So I suppose I was trying to apply this to the welfare state?

You also seem to not take into account that the job market is tough right now and that is for people who are fit to work.
Where are the jobs for all the people you will throw off benefits?

@PreciousLittleLifeForms honestly, I just wouldn't bother engaging. Don't let them upset you.

@PreciousLittleLifeForms honestly, I just wouldn't bother engaging. Don't let them upset you.

The problem rn is high debt. That isn’t a surprise or unknown.

I am not explaining anything to you as I dont think you mean well at all.
I have more than just autism that affect me daily but I dont have to explain that to you.

I have actually thought about this. Suicide. Or commit a crime and and go to prison. I know women who have been in prison and it is not that bad.

In what jobs? There are not enough to go round for people who are fit to work let alone people who are currently on sickness benefits.

Why should disabled people be removed from their homes and made to live in some hostel type thing?

You are right but their views are shocking and I cant let them go unchallenged. That would upset me more I think.

that might actually answer an earlier question ie what people did before the welfare state - they comitted a crime to go to jail for a bed and food.

Not saying you should do that obviously! Just thinking about history.

Okay so I have quite severe complex trauma in my background from a violent, unstable, scary childhood. As a result I have depression/anxiety and very maladaptive coping mechanisms. However I always worked even though it affected me and I had to overcompensate etc. I've never tried to kill myself but have thought about it to end my internal distress. I have eating disorder, OCD, some very strange habbits but I still worked full time for 35 years.

I mean if it's that or starve then you just find a way to make it work.

I'm not unsympathetic. I am getting phychotherapy on the NHS (which as you know is very difficult to get) because my illness is severe enough. I don't claim any benefits though as I am living on savings just now. If I had no savings and there was no welfare state you can bet your bottom dollar I would be hunting for a job and if I have to do weird addictive behaviours every night after work to deal with the stress then that's what I would do (probably is what i did)