I’ve joined the “why are there dogs everywhere” Club

[BananaBum]

I’ll start things off by saying I have a dog myself and normally scoff at all the people rolling their eyes over dogs in pubs and cafes. Can even forgive younger, less well behaved dogs because they have to learn and be exposed to different situations.

HOWEVER

Today I went to get in a lift in John Lewis with my DC and a woman with a pushchair and TWO massive labradors asked if I wouldn’t mind waiting because one of her dogs were nervous about being crowded.

Why are you in John Lewis then?
Is it really necessary for the dogs to come out with you?
Did they come in the car especially or do you live in town?
how does it all work logistically?

So many questions. And also just a bit annoyed I had to wait for the next lift

Can't they tie their dog up outside a shop? That's what used to happen.

I’m in this club too- and also a dog owner. There is really no need to take dogs into shops like this. It’s surely not much fun for the dog who would rather be lounging on their bed at home or out in open air having a lovely walk. And even more so if it’s a nervous dog or a dog who doesn’t like to be ‘crowded’. How ridiculous.

When I’m going somewhere, I make the same assessment with my dog as I would with a toddler- is it going to be fun for them and can I guarantee they won’t misbehave or do something embarrassing? If the answer is no then I’m not taking them. I went through a long phase of not taking my pre-schoolers to cafes or shops because they had too much energy/wouldn’t sit still or walk nicely/would be noisy and would therefore annoy other people so I just didn’t take them. Same with my dog.

(I do realise single parents have to take small children into shops sometimes but also online shopping exists).

I have lost respect for John Lewis for this policy.

Sadly people steal dogs, use them as bait dogs, etc so no I don’t think people would do this.

When I was a child, a lot of women didn't work outside the home, so there was always someone to keep the dog company.

I think people expect them to sleep all day, but they don't. If you want a pet that can be left alone, sleeping, all day, get a cat. They are self-service animals. Dogs require constant interaction.

In that scenario I totally agree, no need to bring your dog to John Lewis but I am happy that they are now allowed in our local shopping precinct, which is one of those 60s outdoors but quite enclosed if you know what I mean.

My dog loves coming with us wherever we go but for his sake and ours, some places are just not great to bring a dog.

I probably wouldn’t have got on anyway considering it was a small space and I have a Hold that would be face to face level with that size dog. It was more the expectation that we should accommodate her dog which was obviously in an inappropriate environment. And then thinking about it I was just astonished anyone would have two labradors in a department store? With a pushchair too? Just seems like it would be a nightmare.

There are some spaces that dogs are allowed and I have no issue with it. For example, several people have mentioned NT properties - our local ones allow dogs in the larger grounds but not the farm/formal gardens/in the house etc and it works really well. We take our dog there often and all enjoy it.

this in particular, It just seemed like such an odd scenario.

Going into a commercial space in line with the rules of that space is not inappropriate.

It's not at all similar to the inconvenience of needing bread and milk but not being able to leave sleeping children alone to go get it. It may be comparable to being on the school run and needing to pop in to John Lewis to buy a new top for a work thing the next day, even though the kids will be bored by the 10 minutes we have to spend in there.

But fundamentally these are commercial decisions.

If I need to shop for something, I usually do it on my commute rather than when I'm out on a dog walk. But not always (e.g. I've popped into Waterstones while out with my dog a few times).

And most times, it is not a choice between going into John Lewis with my dog, or dropping them home and going back out to John Lewis without my dog. It is a choice between popping in to John Lewis with my dog, or just not popping in at all. Shops are commercial entities first and foremost, and have clearly taken the decision that they get more sales by allowing customers the convenience of being able to bring their dogs in.

It is my opinion that it is totally inappropriate (and I have a dog). There are many more people that share my opinion, even if you don't. I know the reverse applies, but it doesn't make it right.

It is the explosion of non dog people owning dogs; having no clue how to train dogs and no experience of living with dogs.

Well of course not hence the fact I don’t take him to places inappropriately and started this thread because I was surprised to see two massive Labrador’s in the John Lewis lift.

It’s getting ridiculous and I say that as a long term dog owner. Saying that, I only like my dogs! There is no need to take a dog to a department store, extremely unfair of an owner to take their dog somewhere it’s going to be unhappy.

YABU dogs have been allowed in John Lewis for a long time so this is nothing new.

And you have extrapolated seeing dogs in a lift, once, to dogs being " everywhere"?

After noticing two large ones in a lift - I couldn’t help but notice many dogs around the shopping complex.

also a lot of people have been saying “wow people are taking dogs to all sorts of places” for a while and I never really believed it. But from my experience this weekend and then this thread - I think it’s difficult to ignore that things must have changed to allow more dogs?

And it’s not SO much about them being allowed in JL (which I still don’t see why you would) - but about them being there when they were obviously not happy being there and I’m expected to just accept that when I’m not the person that has taken my large dog to a public space that’s not appropriate?

Many people have mentioned “just popping in” if they’ve been somewhere else. I get that in a way - as in I live rurally and will go to a pub garden for lunch/ a drink after a long walk and my dog will snooze under the table. That’s popping in when you’ve been somewhere else.

going into JL in the middle of a shopping complex in the city centre suggests you’ve gone out for the purpose of shopping and taken a dog that doesn’t like crowds

You don't know why the person had the dogs with them.
Just assume that bringing the dogs was unavoidable, and get on with your day.

If the dogs are well behaved, then what is the problem?

I can't do enough eye rolling when I see those people who have dogs in a pushchair. FGS.

Do you think it was inappropriate for others who did take their toddlers to cafes?

Or did you make a decision that worked in your specific situation because you knew your toddlers and what they could and could not handle, and others would make the same assessment for their toddlers and decide what was right.

When we adopted my son, he was two and I was shocked at how great he was in cafes. Fully expected to have to put that on hold for a few years, but he sat calmly and would chat away to me - no screaming, no demand for screens etc. So we ended up going to lots of cafes in those early days.

Dog owners should make the same (honest!) assessment of what is right for their dog and for other users of specific spaces.

maybe if you stopped rolling your eyes and thought about it, it might help you realise why

For me, it doesn’t make a huge difference because luckily I like dogs. However there are plenty of people who have pointed out it is at the detriment to people with allergies, asthma, phobias, having an assistance dog, being able to go out and enjoy themselves. It affects me if they aren’t well behaved like it affects anyone else. And just like I vaccinate my children so that others that can’t be are protected, I have the social conscience to realise that this may not be in everyone’s best interest. Including that of some of the dogs!

You know most people who use push chairs for dogs have elderly dogs who might not be able to walk all the way to a park to have what limited bit of off-lead exercise they can manage?

To me, the problem is dogs not having the choice about being dragged around places with bright lights, strong perfumes and slippery floors. Dogs are being anthropomorphised to extreme degrees and it is causing them stress.
A shopping complex, department store or cinema is not a natural environment for them and I would question the need for them to be there.

You seem a bit hypocrite (and wrong) to be honest. So it’s ok for you to take your dog into a cafe but not for someone else to take their dog to JL? Obviously people shouldn’t ask others not to get in a lift become of their dogs but you seem to be talking more widely about dogs in shops now rather than that specific incident?

I disagree that people in a city centre might not just be popping in. When I go to JL with my dog in the near future we will be doing a 20-15 min in and out. I can’t imagine it will take longer than that to choose a coffee machine but I want to physically see them for myself. I won’t be clothes shopping, i won’t be going anywhere else other than a nice rural dog walk in the way home. So no different than you taking your dog into a coffee shop after a walk? And my dog is perfectly happy in crowds or i wouldn’t take her. Not all dogs are the same.

Also some people live in city centres. My daughter lives a 5 min walk away from Selfridges. She doesn’t have a dog but if she did I assume she’d be walking it in the city centre. There’s definitely people in her street who have dogs in their apartments. I’m sure some of them might nip into Selfridges on their way back from the park.

It doesn't necessarily though.

My nearest John Lewis is on the way to a really nice place that I often go with my dog for a walk. Shock horror, I sometimes even take him on the bus to get there.

I almost never go out 'for the purpose of shopping' anymore. Almost all in-store shopping I do is done on the way to or from somewhere else - usually my commute, or on the way to or from school drop offs, or on the way to or from a social engagement etc.

I don't think I'm unusual in that respect.

And thinking a little further there are lots more examples of people whose lives are made more difficult by dogs in unexpected places. My Granny was registered blind and only had something like 12 percent of her vision. For some reason she wasn’t able to get a guide dog, but liked to remain as independent as possible and went out to the town centre every Wednesday with a friend. She would have almost definitely tripped over a dog if it wandered near her in a shop. She quite famously in our family managed to fall in the river when we were on a short cruise, but that’s beside the point.