To think that surely Rayner has to go.

[Blankscreen]

Well well well.

So now it emerges that Rayner rearranged her property affairs and declared to HMRC that her new flat in Brighton is her main residence and saved £40k on the SDLT bill as a result.

She has then apparently declared to the local councils the complete opposite.

I'm sure slimeball Kier will defend and say it was perfectly legal blah blah blah.

Not to mention she has a grace and favour house funded by tax payers in London as her constituency office is so far away. Yet she 'lives' in Brighton - surely she could just commute that distance like may others do every day.

Surely she has to go.

@Allisnotlost1
its irrelevant if she was given incorrect advice. It’s up to her, just as it is with the rest of the country, to know the law and responsibilities.

So their mistakes ( if that is the case) are still hers.

Now after she's been rumbled, she has finally admitted she didn't pay enough sadly on new Hove property. £40k short.

What is it that makes you think she's thick? Could it be her northern, working class accent? I don't know the ins and outs of the situation she currently finds herself in, but you don't get to be 'thick' and become deputy prime minister. You also don't achieve the level of popularity she enjoys within your party. Thick never translates as popular.

Just as well she hasn't got a stable full of chilly horses like Nadim Zahawi, ex Tory Chancellor and tax avoider. That's really taking the biscuit ; the Chancellor of the Exchequer, avoiding thousands in tax, the tax from which his salary and immense expenses come and getting same taxpayers to pay for his horses central heating. Takes a Tory to do it with maximum cheek. You need Tory Tax Tips, Ange; you're not doing it properly.

Exactly…just because she’s been found out
and
Starmer says he’s proud to sit beside her !!!
He's endorsing The Deputy Prime Minister despite the fact she’s broken the law by not paying her taxes
What a disgrace

Deflection.

Simples.

None of which is relevant

What others get up to doesn't endorse her actions

If she hadn’t said in 2023 “The public are furious with those who get away with tax avoidance while they pay!” then she wouldn’t have attracted such ire over her tax dodging.

Everyone should pay their fair share, and that’s the case even more so if you are a senior member of the government. But, there is an undercurrent in the left in general, in my experience, of thinking that they know best, and as a result others should just follow, and certainly not question. I’m not sure where the self confidence that they are right comes from. It runs through this thread, and yet very few posters actually understood the tax issues from the off, just assumed that ‘their’ person had done the right thing, and how dare you question it.

I’m not a tax expert either, but I know enough to know what questions to ask, and to know that if something seems too good to be true it almost certainly is. I certainly know that you can’t have an interest in multiple properties and not pay the second home uplift. As does any property solicitor.

I imagine Rayner took very sensible professional advice on the setting up of the trust. But didn’t understand that she still had an interest in the constituency property by the nature of the trust. I expect when the conveyancing solicitor competed the SDLT form they asked her if she had any other property, and she said no. It’s almost certainly no more complicated than that.

But, by claiming the constituency property was her primary residence for council tax she must have at least had to think about it. And if in doubt, take advice. I imagine she didn’t, and that this was also a factor.

I agree with the PP, but it has nothing to do with her origin or her accent - do you think it has?

Truth. Even more simple.

Truth = facts.

Facts which are currently coming to light, in Rayner’s case. Another bad day for Labour. And Reeves has booted the budget to the end of November in the futile hope that time will be on her side.

What a mess.

Well yeah. But it’s also an issue that extra scrutiny is applied to Labour. IMO she should have been aware of that (as they all should have done with the Alli donations) and been whiter than white. Not fair but that’s how it is. Even if given correct advice it looks weird to buy a new place so far away, without a transparent explanation. That just invites media speculation, which the government do not need. And I wish the PM would stop with the patronising working class woman schtick.

I think her popularity is because everyone keeps going on about her working class background. Even Starmer mentioned it in PMQs on how proud he was of her as a women of the working class
Do the working class see Raynor as one if them ? Do they think she’ll stand up for them ?

Perhaps the light has come on now…she’s clearly Not

That’s right and it was clear from the outset - the ME+EM freebies etc.

Rayner is a wrong un’ and now its plain for all to see.

Depends entirely on the advice, e.g did she go to the original advisor who set up the trust and/or have specialist advice from someone familiar with the trust arrangement?
If so, how can it possibly be her fault? She has a case to sue.

Or did she just rely on the conveyancer? in which case 100% on her...

However, i now think she should now resign regardless of the above, if its the former, she can come back at a latter date, if the latter, she is done.

What odds will you give me - that the account was introduced to Rayner by Lord Alli?

Come on, roll up, roll up!

The budget is at the end of November because the OBR has to be given ten weeks notice - we all know what happens when they’re not consulted.

I’m so sorry this has happened because the scrutiny of her is relentless. It’s very sad that the reason for the complexity of her tax affairs is because she has a disabled son who she’s doing her utmost to look after. I’m reserving judgement until the legal advice she received is published. At least she’s paying the stamp duty that’s due because of the existence of the trust.

Do you have a link to when Zahawi launched into a vicious diatribe against MPs avoiding taxes? Or from when he called MPs scum? TIA

Exactly
She has form for this and I see it as the absolute last straw

I don’t think shes a ‘wrong ‘un’ and I don’t think accepting the clothing donations was any worse than what any Tories have accepted over the years. The idiotic redecorating, the food deliveries and holidays - and that’s just Boris Johnson alone. Ironically most of the last government were wealthy enough to pay for all of it themselves, whereas most of this cabinet are from more modest means. Maybe more understandable to accept gifts knowing they’ll be photographed so much more often. But they need to be better than the Tories because the press are Tories. It’s just about playing the game better.

In law it’s our responsibility to know and to get it right
That's How it works

If that were true none of us would employ solicitors for our house purchases and the entire specialist tax legal industry would collapse. Rayner took legal advice from Shoosmiths (We are the law firm clients choose for excellent service, incisive thinking and above all for our ability to focus on what matters.) and trusted that advice would be correct. Just like I would - and you if you were honest.

Nope, thats not correct.

How does a layperson know tax law? even HMRC recognise this..... or does your view just apply to Rayner?

It all comes down to the provenance of the advice & what she told them.

HMRC do not accept the excuse of ‘oh I didn’t know’
They expect us to know

Thats how it works and whilst I agree how can we if we aren’t specialists in the field tell that to HMRC

It is relevant if you're arguing that she ought to do the right thing, the moral thing and step down, as some poster have on here... when others have and done the wrong thing and remained in office, for example, Boris Johnson. I certainly am not endorsing her actions but if we are going to have a Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, we ought to use it appropriately and it should have teeth - and regardless of Political Party all should be accountable. This trial by media is incredibly unhelpful in my opinion.