Mediating between teen and dh…again

[dobbysvest]

Ds(14) and dh (not his bio dad) generally get along well. Dh and I have been together since ds was 4 so not a new relationship and we also have a reception age child together.

Dh thinks I baby ds a lot which I am guilty of. He think he should be given more chores and responsibilities and pulled up on his attitude. He has a point.

The way ds speaks sometimes is rude and challenging. Lots of ‘shut ups’ and occasional name calling which starts in banter/jest but can descend into rudeness quite quickly. However he is generally a well behaved lad, never had any issues with school or bad behaviour out of the house. He just unleashes a lot of his angst on us which I suppose is fairly typical for teens and their parents. He feels safe with us.

Dh has occasionally lost his rag and shouted which is awful. Other times he will just go silent, ignore ds and create an atmosphere which is also shit. I am constantly mediating between the two, trying to pull ds up on his bad attitude and enforce reasonable consequences without completely alienating him and also getting Dh to manage his expectations and reactions.

I do strongly believe that the fact he isn’t his bio dad plays a part. I have unconditional love for my son no matter how much of a git he is being. Dh obviously doesn’t have that and although he loves him and has done a lot for him over the years, I guess he finds this behaviour harder to live with.

Theres no need for all of the ‘this is what happens when you get a new man’ shit that I know people will inevitably come out with. It’s too late for that now. And for the most part we are very happy. But I just wondered how people manage the teenage years with the stepparent dynamic? I suspect even bio dads/sons fall out when the testosterone gets going. I’m just so drained of being the one in the middle trying to manage everyone’s feelings and behaviour.

At 14 you shouldn’t be babying him. My DS was virtually self sufficient by that age. You are doing him no favours and if he’s doing well at school he sounds perfectly capable. I think if you give him more responsibilty and independence it might help calm his rebelliousness down.

I have two young adult sons, I have never been told to shut up. Completely unacceptable behaviour. You know your son would never say that to a teacher as there would be consequences, it is not a good way to communicate either and you allowing it shows him this is acceptable. Your Dh feels like his wife is being disrespected and you are, I bet you would never tolerate that from him.

You are raising your child to be a functioning adult. That means chores and you add to those until he can do everything by 16 from laundry, meal planning, cooking, washing up or loading and unloading a dishwasher, bathroom cleaning, hoovering, bins emptied and cleaned, helping unpack the shopping and putting it away. All of the things you do. You are not doing him any favours by letting him off this now, because later you will say well he's doing his GCSEs so I can't possibly ask him to start doing more chores.

They are learning how to communicate without door slamming or telling anyone to shut up or fuck off. The more you let him off with things now the harder this will be to pull back. I used to say "try again" if they came to me all surly and moody asking for something in a tone that they wouldn't get away with at school. Dh did once say no one speaks to my wife like that to my son who realised he had massively overstepped. Your Dh probably feels like he can't say that even though he should be able to.

My DH has raised my DD with me since she was 2 and she's now 27.

I can tell you that our paranoia as mothers over the 'step' element causes a lot more problems than how the stepdads are behaving towards our kids.

I was overprotective, in the early years, guarding DD from the potential issues arising from 'step' but, as a result, needlessly interfered and undermined DH and upset the household dynamic.

My DH has treated my DD better than my actual dad did me and I can tell you that what you're explaining happened between my DB and my dad. Seems normal and if you can manage your inner voice, and see reality instead of feat I think you can read back on your post and see that things look pretty OK. Think you're both doing a good job.

Teens are just enigmas and hard work. Thankfully, it is a temporary stage!

I have raised two kids (boy and girl) into adulthood and I can hand on heart say they have never called me names or told me to shut up. I don't think this is as common as you think it is. Moodiness is normal, but this is more than just moodiness. I think your DH probably has a point here and you need to work with your DS to fix his behaviour before he becomes an adult man thinking that it's OK to speak to people this way.

Telling people to shut up isn't just moodiness though - it's outright rude and should be clamped down on heavily.

Yes teens showed moodiness. None of the 4 I've had so far have ever had "lots of shut ups"

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because he's well behaved outside the house that what he does in the house doesn't matter. It does. Basic respect for the people he lives with is important - both for now and for future relationships.

Your DH giving the silent treatment isn't on, but letting your DS speak to you both like shit isn't on either.

I think you have quite a low benchmark for your DS’s behaviour TBH. Just because he’s doing ok at school and not being brought home by the police doesn’t mean it’s ok to be so rude. I don’t mean that you have to have serious consequences immediately but some kind of discussion where you outline that he has to find other strategies to use when he’s feeling frustrated and then setting out consequences if he doesn’t sounds in order to me. If you let rudeness slide it gradually gets worse and worse.

I also think that the babying has to stop too- you’ll be doing him no favours in the long run (he’ll be a crap housemate/ employee/ partner). Plus if the babying and the rudeness go hand in hand your DS probably thinks he’s king of the house…

I’d try changing your boundaries with your son a bit- but make it clear it’s YOUR decision and then see how things go with your DP.

The only time mine told me to shut up was in a jokey manner and even then they usually said behave not shut up. So I would say something like I'm gonna kick your ass at bowling today and the response would be lots of laughter and shut up (or behave) mother we all know you bowl like a blind frog with no arms or some such.. They wouldn't be saying it in any other circumstances

The teenage years are hard but your DS sounds perfectly normal! Your DH sadly is causing the issue by over parenting. You know yourself his parenting is coming from frustration and not from trying to lovingly guide your son to become a well rounded adult.
Id sit DH down and re-establish some parenting boundaries. He’s not the boys dad and that matters! He needs to step back right now as his parenting is making things worse for everyone. Listen to your DH about his frustrations and find any solutions you can (for example if it’s mess) that put onus on you and son to fix for DH so it’s not his problem and then hopefully not his frustration. But then clearly tell him he needs to back off at moment on shouting at DS and you want him to come to you and discuss with you the frustrations with DS. If your DH won’t respect this it’ll be very difficult! It is his issue as your DS sounds normal and it does sound like it’s DH frustrations adding fuel to fire here.

Then try have a word with DS and see what behaviour you can lovingly nudge to improve but be aware he’s a child and living with a man who isn’t his dad that keeps shouting at him and stonewalling him will likely not have made him feel very open with you.
Your DH is your husband for now - your son is forever. This is clearly a DH problem! Not saying leave him but you have to stop this behaviour in DH before tackling DS.

For those saying OPs DS should be pulled up / stopped from being lippy and rude - what does that look like for those that have done it effectively? What sort of consequences are appropriate?

If he’s continuing to be rude and telling you to shut up, then whatever you’re doing in terms of ‘pulling him up’ on it isn’t working. What happens when he behaves this way towards you? When my DDs were that age, they were both very challenging in terms of pushing boundaries. However, if they had told me to shut up or called me names the consequences would have been immediate and followed through. Eg, loss of privileges (removal of phone / TV), not allowed out to socialise with friends, loss of pocket money type of thing. They pretty soon realised I meant what I said and this behaviour soon stopped. They had chores to do and this would cause conflict as they would constantly moan about doing them. Again, consequences for not doing them included loss of pocket money. If their dirty clothes didn’t make it into the laundry basket, they didn’t get washed. If they left dirty pots in their room, no food allowed in there for a week and so on.
It sounds like you need to revisit expectations of behaviour and consequences for not meeting those expectations.
Unconditional love doesn’t mean letting stroppy teenagers get away with being rude and lazy BTW. It means a parent will do their absolute best to raise a well mannered, hard working kind child.

There are lots of different views and I think that shows what a tricky situation this is to navigate.

My maternal instinct means that I will always protect and prioritise ds. Dh obviously doesn’t have that biological feeling towards him and sees it as an annoyance when he’s behaving this way. I have more tolerance for it because he’s mine. And the rudeness isn’t really directed at me, it’s 95% him and Dh butting heads.

His dad is on the scene and he isn’t like it with him either.

I have actually asked my ds if he would be happier if Dh and I split up as it got to the point where I really thought he must just not like him to behave that way. But he doesn’t want that. He actually loves dh and recognises that without him we wouldn’t live how we live. So why he has to be so rude towards him I don’t know.

I do know I need to instil some more responsibilities in ds and I think we’ve made some headway with that over summer, he’s been doing a lot more to help.

My biggest fear is that Dh and ds will continue to fall out and it’ll become unbearable to live with. I love both of them but obviously my children always come first. Equally I would be heartbroken if our marriage suffered beyond repair over this. I wish I could knock their heads together sometimes. Ds is not perfect but Dh could certainly react better too.

I think I would struggle to live with a surly teenager who told me to shut up on a regular basis, to be fair.

What consequences do you put in place when he speaks to his step-dad like that? Because it doesn’t really sound like there are any.

I do believe he and dh butt heads in some sort of male ego/alpha dog way.

This isn't a particularly valid reason for their behaviour. It's just making excuses for men in the same way as "boys will be boys" - oh they can't help behaving appallingly because it's their biology.

A lot of toxic behaviour in humans can probably be linked to primal biological impulses (not just men) - that doesn't mean it's acceptable or that we can't unlearn it.

I don't know whether this male ego impulse is conscious or subconscious with either of them but the onus is on your husband, as the adult with a larger perspective and more emotional regulation, to rein himself in when your son doesn't. You should probably talk to him about whether there is a conscious/subconscious alpha dog thing going on - if it's conscious you need to nip that in the bud, because it's pathetic for a grown man to be alpha-dogging it over a boy. If it's unconscious, the realisation that it might be present could help him understand his own behaviour (with a view to reining it in).

You should probably be on the same page as to what degree of bad behaviour from your son warrants an escalation - in other words when the line is crossed. If it's not crossed, your husband should learn to let his normal teen snarkiness roll off his back. When it is crossed, you should back your husband up. Have you talked about what the line might be? Because in any relationship I think the point at which rudeness/banter tips into swearing/personal insults is usually quite evident.

3 DSs with their biological father. Personalities differ. Sons and fathers (bio or step) often clash- it is the classic stags locking horns. Rough, but it’s true and part of growing up, learning boundaries etc for some. I often felt like piggy in the middle, trying to be fair to my son but also holding a consolidated parenting line with my DH. I could have worked for the diplomatic service the skills I learned!
Babying your kids does them no favours. They need to grow up and you have to let them, bit by bit. They need to learn independence and understand consequences.So do fathers sometimes. My DH was keen on a chores rota for the boys. I said feel free to set it up and I would help him police it, but I wasn’t setting it up. They’ve all moved out now and there’s still no chores rota written up.😁
Don’t assume it’s all about step parenting, it may just be parenting, although I think it must be more complicated in a step family. If it’s any encouragement, the son who clashed most with my DH then (and both were similar personalities, hence the clashes) is probably closest to him now.

I recall being a teenager and I never told my parents or any adult to shut up and definitely not name-calling. A bit of rebellion and moodiness, yes but telling adults to shut up and name-call especially parents and family members, absolutely not, same with DH and were from two different countries and cultures.

And anyone that did, they would not being getting off with light punishments where they feel able to continue to do it.

If he doesn’t do it at school, why would you allow it at home?

If he is still doing it after being told not to, then the punishment you are giving obviously isn’t working. He is not in early child stages, he’s 14.

Is your DH actually sulking and giving the silent treatment or is he simply exhausted with being disrespected and putting some space between your DS and your DS’s behaviour?

You both need to sit down together and talk about what you both expect of DS and make sure you’re on the same page because if you’re continuing to babying DS, you’re showing both your DH and your DS you’re taking DS’s side and he’s going to continue his behaviour because you always step in and punish him lightly enough that he continues.

Your DH isn’t DS’s father but he does live in the household along with the child you have together and should not be expected to continue to put up with this behaviour because your DS is a “well-behaved” teen otherwise, (he’s not if he is continuing such rude behaviour and it is targeted at your DH), and it in what world is it expecting perfection to expect someone not be behaving in a very rude manner?

It could also be argued that your DH cares and loves your son because he knows such rudeness is detrimental and you babying him is not going to help DS in the long run.

You need to tell your dh that until he can manage his own emotions he needs to take a step back. And you need to manage your sons behaviour.

i have 2 dd not dh kids , I was always main parent he never disciplined kids.
We have a dc together now coming up to teens and we are clashing because it turns out my dh of 18 years is a do as I say not as I do parent! If he had pulled that crap with my dds he would have been out on his ear! I am trying to see his perspective but it’s tough.

Loving all the posters with perfect teens. How wonderful for them.

Your DS isn't telling your DH to shut up for no reason I assume, so what is your DH saying that makes DS then say shut up?

At the end of the day your DH is the adult here and a calm - you're being rude - and walking away is the best way to handle it. It sounds like your DH is choosing to get into it with your son though rather than behaving like a controlled adult.

I expect your son is at an age where even though he has grown up with your DH, he's not related, he didn't choose him and he does not want to be parented by him because he's not his dad. He already has a dad. That needs to be understood and respected by your DH I think. But no, sounds like he'd rather steam roller in.

At the end of the day your DH is the adult here and he needs build connection and stop keep butting heads with your son. I'm 100% on your son's side. I think blended families are often very unfair and far from ideal generally though.

I agree with this. Get dh to take a step back and I'd bet that the friction between them will improve.

Tbh I think this is a story as old as time lots of kids will clash with a parent in the teenage years
you could set your watch be my sister and dad arguing
I think your DH is caught between a rock and a hard place as whilst not speaking isn’t great
what’s the other option because DS will just see it as him backing down and a green light to carry on being rude

I would have let my teenage son or daughter to tell me to shut up.

Your son does sound ill mannered, and hormones are no excuse. I can see your DH;s point.

Kids aren't moody with their friends. Unless they were grumpy as a child and this is part of their nature you are simply tolerating it and YOU are rationalising poor behavior as typical. It's not typical.

Consequences are so easy now with the reliance in tech etc. It doesn't even have to be a major argument. Simply, politeness + chores = phone, internet, pocket money or whatever. Instead of starting with all of that as a default it has to be earned.

There are loads of resources around transitioning to adulthood, we read lots of books etc on managing toddlers but not so much for this transition.

I also think your comment about "not having biological feelings" awful. You are stating that humans don't have the capacity to unconditional love for children that aren't biologically theirs and I would suggest that adoptive and foster parents across history would find that offensive.

My DS - adopted, so neither of us were/are bio parents - went right off the rails at 14 and "shut up" would have been a good day.

DH didn't handle the change in temperament very well and often ended up ramping up the situation beyond where it would have gone naturally. It often started out as jesting too, but got out of hand.

So, I stepped in when the jesting started and told them both to stop, before it got out of hand. I said "DS, you will say something you think is funny, DH, you will take it the wrong way and you will end up arguing, so stop now as you BOTH upset me when you do this". It didn't resolve the situation completely, of course not, but it did stop some situations escalating and gave me the opportunity to voice how I felt, to both of them.

I spoke separately to DS about his attitude towards both of us, but particularly DH.

I also spoke separately to DH about how his reactions made the situation worse.

We had a tricky 18 months that included drugs and alcohol, but I do think that because I stood my ground with both of them, didn't side with one or the other, pointed out the other one's point of view and reasons for their behaviour/reactions etc., we came through.

We didn't have a younger child to consider though, which does change the dynamic.

I agree that the ‘banter’ either needs to stop or form boundaries around it put in place. I suspect dh may wind ds up and then be grumpy when ds finally snaps and tells him to shut up.

Your DS isn’t telling your DH to shut up for no reason I assume, so what is your DH saying that makes DS then say shut up?

I get that you have to cut children a little more slack than you would an adult. But he’s 14, and he’s saying it to his mum and step dad, not just the step dad. If an OP was saying her partner told her to shut up all the time, the response wouldn’t be “well what are you saying to him? He wouldn’t say it for no reason”

No, op says he doesn’t really say it to her or his biological dad.