UK restaurant hygiene star ratings - pointless?

[tamade]

I now live in a fairly rural part of China, compared to UK standards food hygiene is abysmal. Meet is butchered in the back of shops and brought out to the front to be displayed on a table in the street. Restaurants wash vegetables and utensils in the canal. Toilets besides kitchens. animals in kitchens etc etc.
We're not talking about how many stars here, an inspector would probably have a heart attack and close down any establishment s/he entered.

In almost 8 years I have never had any kind of stomach food poisoning issue.
Similar experiences in Malaysia
Can't say the same about eating out in the UK.

AIBU?

My experience of eating in China, despite all of the things you mention, is that the food was incredibly fresh! And cooked to order! And it’s that what makes the difference imho!

In my experience, a low rating isn’t much to do with the actual hygiene, more record keeping. So in that regard, not necessarily a true reflection of what’s going on in a kitchen.

Meanwhile when I was travelling Asia earlier this year I got food poisoning 4 times and got salmonella so badly my appendix exploded and I needed emergency surgery.

Your immune system is strong. I’ve never had food poisoning in the UK but my immune system isn’t strong enough for Asia.

I don't know that the freshness of the food would combat animals being allowed in the kitchen. Or general cleanliness.

@TheGreatWesternShrew That is awful, I hope you are okay now.

Nail on the head. In the UK it's all about systems and work instructions, checklists, etc. A place can have all the paperwork in place and get 5* but in reality, the staff may well ignore it all and do their own thing, not bother checking use by dates, not bother checking food temperatures, using foodstuffs from non approved suppliers, etc.

We had a tandoori restaurant in our village that everyone raved about. Really good quality food, excellent service, affordable, etc. But they got a 1 rating as the guy owning it wasn't a "paperwork" person, so didn't keep up with the paperwork, but he had his own "systems" that he and his staff (family) complied with. Previously, he had a family member who did the paperwork, getting a 5 rating, but when they died, the paperwork got abandoned. After the bad rating, he got another family member to take over the paperwork and got his 5* rating restored. But over that period, everyone carried on eating there, getting takeaways, etc., and there was no difference at all in quality/service etc.

The health/hygiene inspectors don't actually check the food itself - they just check the paperwork. They don't stand and observe the kitchen at busy times, they don't do spot checks on use by dates, food temperatures, etc. The ratings really don't mean what people think they mean.

As @taxguru said.

There was an Italian restaurant in town that we visited quite often and really liked. We then found that their food hygiene rating had gone down to 1 star. We were very surprised as it was one of those places where you can see through in to the kitchen from the restaurant so it's not like they could hide if the the kitchen was squalid.

Anyway, DD found the report on line and it did turn out to be something to do with record keeping rather than actual cleanliness, or lack of.

By the by, we are going on holiday to China next year. I think we will be mostly in cities, how will that compare to the standards in rural China? We will also be taking a 4 day trip on a boat on the Yantzee, same question.

I’m all good now! But just goes to show that your experience isn’t everyone’s. Food hygiene protects the most vulnerable - children, elderly, immunocompromised… me apparently - more than the average strong adult.

I've never had food poisoning anywhere thank gawd.

But I did notice the hygiene in SE Asia in eateries was very questionable in some cases.

Flies and insects landing on food, cats and other animals in kitchens and dining room, really dirty foul primitive toilets you flush with a bucket. And all the street food.
I didn't once get remotely sick in six months.

I guess just because things are higher risk doesn't necessarily mean food poisoning is a likelihood.

Flies etc aren't usually a problem if the food is properly cooked. I don't know Chinese cuisine well, but my impression is a lot of it is fried, which at high temperatures will kill most germs/bacteria etc left by flies/insects walking/landing on the raw food.

I've always thought the real problems with food hygiene were uncooked items, like salads, raw fish, bread, cakes, etc., where insects can land on it, and the germs/bacteria remain as there's no cooking to kill them.

I tend to avoid uncovered/buffet style foods for that reason and tend to go for fried/freshly cooked food when eating out. If I have fruit or salad or veg from trays on counters/buffets, then I dig in to the tray and take from the bottom!

My friend is an Environmental Health officer. She says you wouldn't believe what she sees in UK kitchens and low stars are often due to an abysmal lack of care.
Another friend organised a meal at a local restaurant and my friend said, having seen the kitchen, she would be eating pizza because at least she knew how hot the oven would be.

That's a very good point. I didn't eat any salad or fruit at all while I was travelling. Only cooked food. That's probably one reason why I avoided illness. That and luck.

I reckon food poisoning can't be that common. In the UK when there's an outbreak it makes national front page news.

Someone with more knowledge may tell me that everything has changed now, but I worked in kitchens in the early 2000s and everywhere I worked always got good ratings-ALLLL of them were minging too.

Hi @tamade are you basically this person's friend (or ex friend now I presume)?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5398365-guess-she-wasnt-a-true-friend?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

The times I've had a dodgy tummy abroad have been (generally speaking)

1. in 'tourist' places where there have been buffets left out and stuff kept warm for hours
2. due to not drinking enough water and salt and sugar to keep up with dehydration from the heat.

China, India, Thailand - eating stuff that's very fresh and cooked to order has generally been absolutely fine - so while the markets can be a bit stomach churning with meat etc - it does tend to be cooked fresh and served hot.

I was all with you until you said they don’t check the kitchen 😂. They literally spot check your kitchens, check labels and check how food is stored. It’s just that paperwork has more weight to it

This is a very informative short video about what the ratings actually mean. It's worth noting that there's no legal enforcement to display the correct rating so the stickers on the doors may be outdated and incorrect.