Albu to expect my husband to earn more?

[gymboe]

met dh nearly 20 years ago. He’s self employed in creative industry.

im employed full time. When we met I was on £18k. I’m now on £60k.

we have 3 kids. And life is vvvv expensive.

we’ve stayed in same small house we purchased since we were in our 20s.

he has never earned reliably. Sometimes it’s been great and other times it’s terrible. People don’t pay on time. He works weird hours and long Hours and struggles to consistently contribute to house. He puts in £600 and then a few weeks later £300 and at end of month maybe another few hundred etc etc. it’s teeny amounts and on random days. on the flip side I typically contribute £2500 on the first of each month. And then Pay for kids stuff out my own money (days out, school shoes etc)

we are always in our overdraft. He’s lied about having credit cards. He lied and hid 10k of debt. He lies about how much work he has. He’s constantly in overdraft. He says he doesn’t know when money is coming in. He has no work booked in September for example but “remains hopeful something will come up”. He’s constantly plugging one hole by taking from another pot and creating Another.

as we are now in our 40s I’m finding it all very draining. He’s recently taken on a 2 day a week job minimum wage (admin) which I found and insisted he applied for. It provides a third of what we need from him really. This means even longer hours and less help with kids. I’m on my own a lot these days.

I know it’s crap out there and Covid and AI have affected businesses but I never thought I’d be trapped in a job I don’t love, struggling to survive. In a house that is tiny, not able to afford own car, not been on holiday in 15 years (beyond camping)

I want him to stop. Get a full time job/retrain etc.

but he says “I’m good at it” “I want to be happy” “it does earn money” “no one else will
employ me”

if I try to discuss he goes into a dramatic depression pity rant and makes no changes.

leaving him is not an option. But what I saw in him at 20 was not how I thought we would be all
these years later.

Right now he's got it all his own way, hasn't he? Of course he doesn't want to shift his arse and go get a fucking job. That would mean behaving like a responsible adult, which is clearly beyond him.

I hope OP doesn’t mind, hopefully I can help, so yes there is work going to India etc but that’s always been the case, it’s not a new thing that the industry is fairly price driven, but big brands will pay well for quality creative work and people.

But if your DH has a degree, a good solid 10- 15+ years in decent branding agency’s, London or solid client work for large brands and is naturally talented, friendly and hard working then he really could earn upwards of 80k+ if he’s worked up to senior roles or creative director level then I’d expect 65-100k depending on location. Most of my freelancers across all sectors push 50k minimum, that’s animators, web developers etc.

if he’s done an 8 week course in design online and goes into website design then yes he’s right and is competing with the same level and won’t earn much at all.

i hope that helps 🥴

That's very helpful, thank you @reversegear . He's somewhere in the middle, no degree but did a college qualification in graphic design, specialised in print although he can do some online / ppt work. He's not competing for the creative director levels as he's never done that much in-house - he ran his own outfit with family members for years. But he seems to have dwindled and slid down the levels to taking worse and worse jobs rather than the solid ones you're talking about. It's so helpful to know they do still exist, and makes me think the support he needs is as much with confidence and salesmanship as anything else.

He's maybe stayed too long in the dying area of print and is potentially in his late 40s early 50s in which case he will be way better off career changing. It’s a horrid ageist industry as a talented 25 year old can do his role, so yes he will be really struggling to pick up well paid work, and I’m afraid the degree vs college really does make a difference for the larger roles.

Im 50 and I’m career changing even though I run a branding agency, I’m merging and walking away as I know I’ll struggle to keep up in my 60s and I want and need to work to retirement.

Divorce him. He’s extremely selfish and untrustworthy - the lies and debt, which will drag you down with him too.

I'm so grateful for this insight. He's actually late 50s... I've been suggesting career change /retraining for years (he could have done multiple degrees in the time I've been suggesting it) but I'm not credible to him as I don't know the industry, and his confidence is the huge barrier, he just sticks like glue to what he knows. I dont even know what he'd move into at this stage. Good luck with your move, it sounds like you'll have exactly the opposite experience

OP sorry for the derail! I see lots of PP expressing the view that he's lazy, onto a good thing and won't change. My experience with my DH is much more can't change than won't change. This makes me somewhat more understanding, although still frustrated and resentful. . Only you will know which one is true for your DH, which will probably determine what you decide to do next.

He wouldn’t survive as a single man behaving like that. Has he ever supported himself?

He knows you think leaving is not an option.

I’ve always earned a lot more than my husband even when I was part time I earned more than he did full time. Mine works full time and works hard though just not in a well paid industry. I’m in my early 50s and kids all but grown up and it’s only in the last few years I’d say we were financially comfortable. It’s hard when kids are young for sure. Did I feel resentful when my kids were younger that we didn’t have more money and wished I’d married someone who earned better, yes I did sometimes. But as I said, at least mine worked hard. In your shoes it’s less the income that’s an issue but more the lying and not seemingly being arsed to improve

Yanbu. These sorts of hobby "businesses" are horribly self indulgent.

The only time its acceptable to bring in less might be in the early years of building up a business, but he's been at it 20 years, he needs to suck it up and financially support himself and stop leeching off the family pot.

@DesparatePragmatistI've had too as I have a lazy husband.. so my business has had to carry the family. Oh that’s so hard and yes he should have retrained. I’m off to do a degree in radiography, still tech and still images but with a pile of humans involved and finally doing something that makes a difference. Take care and kick him up the bum!!

The issue is lying about the work and the debt. I assume you are in a more expensive part of the country if your 60k income isn’t covering the bills. Perhaps he would be better getting a full time minimum wage job and doing his creative work as a side hustle.

Thanks for the advice. It’s not graphic design but more of along the lines of photography etc.

im taking it all in.

I’ve discovered he has lied again! He’s deep into an overdraft (again) and I forced him to show me his bank details.

it’s completely in the red. It’s only 3rd of September. He’s added 750 to joint account but it’s all smoke and mirrors. Plugging one hole, and creating another.

he just keeps saying he can fix it and it will get better. But the truth is he’s shocking at running a business.

and now I’ve given him an ultimatum. Find another job or I leave.

he just says “I’m good at this” and “I can only do this job, no one else will take me” all the excuses

We are in a v expensive part of the country. We can’t survive on one of us contributing 700, 800 a month. We both need to put in 2000 in my opinion. But it’s not just that that is causing an issue. Running a business is so expensive… insurance, equipment hire, accountant, software cost, various loans, etc.

I really pray he just gets a regular job where you get paid a wage at end of month and that is it! No expenses, no random hours, just “here is your money”

My mother once said something that attracts you to your spouse early on may be something that you also end up disliking about them long term. Creative field, as in artist? (I was dating one) He was wildly creative, secretive, full of charisma and I was besotted. He also proved to be unreliable, always broke, and given to fits of melancholy, the other side of his ‘creative’ personality.
You said leaving wasn’t an option but it sounds like this is the best it’s going to get.

I think you need to leave him. He sounds like a selfish, irresponsible child.

I’m not sure why leaving him isn’t an option. I would, to be frank.

I’ve lived with a sponger, for 10 years in fact, and had a child with him because I kept thinking oh, if the stars could just align and he could find a job he loved, it would all be perfect. But it was never going to be perfect, because he had no intention of finding a job that worked for us as a family unit. Because if he did, he wouldn’t have anything to feel self-pitying about. He wouldn’t have been able to blame everyone else for his woes.

So I carried him like a fucking dead weight for a decade, got myself into debt bailing him out, and when I finally had an epiphany and dumped him, the relief was incredible. I’m financially better off and will only increase my earnings as the years go by.

He’s never going to change, OP. You know it deep down.

edited to add: he never has got a better job. He just has increasingly younger girlfriends who aren’t old enough to mind yet that he’s a loser.

He sounds like a child and isn't prepared to take responsibility for his family.

You can only decide what you do with that..

My DH runs a business and it drives me up the wall how that seems to give license to him working whatever hours he deems are needed and I pick up DC/household slack. It did make reasonable money for years in fairness though but times are tough now.

your DH is doing the same but has never brought much income in - he has to get more realistic and look if it is even solvent if he’s in a downward dent spiral.

however he has taken this job you found, albeit it’s ended up in you doing even more at home - but on one level maybe he’s listening but still too defensive/reluctant to get real.

i would really carve out time alone together to get him to properly acknowledge the situation and its impact on you and go through everything. It’s completely unfair on you but if you still want to work at the relationship (and splitting up is expensive) I do think it’s worth it. I hope he can see sense.

My husband was
a Stay at Home Dad enabling me to have a wonderful but very demanding career as a social worker in various hospitals and an amazing 10 years as a Royal Naval Social Worker. It meant so much not to have to worry about getting our 2 children organised for school and holidays or any illness. Both work for the NHS now..... DH is a great cook and does the shopping too now. We managed OK financially.... I don't know how people manage these days with both parents at work....

My love and respect for him would be long dead.

OP, the sporadic working is pathetic, but that’s one thing. The lack of contributing to anything, the lying and the debt? That’s marriage ending in my book.

He is embarrassing.

I’m not sure I can afford to get divorced. That’s the thing stopping me. And I would miss seeing my kids full time.

@reversegear I work in music industry - you are correct - we use the same graphics design people non stop because they are reliable, consistent, open to comment without being defensive and work within given parameters - i don’t think OPs partner is in anything like this I’m suspecting music Ian, photographer, freelance video /camera editor etc - It can be very well paid but unfortunately it is indeed very erratic and there’s tons of competition - and a lot of them are quite pig headed too about doing other jobs alongside it - which is why the divorce rate is high - women often like a bloke with ‘a sexy job’ initially where they get to meet fun people until they realise it’s erratic earnings and often a bloke with a bigger ego than wallet

At this point you’re choosing this.

Divorce and what follows is costly, but similarly you can’t afford to have even more debt and a shit credit rating yourself due to staying with him.

Sadly, when you divorce he is unlikely to get himself into a situation to be able to house the DC for part of the time, due to his priorities (low paying work) and money problems.