To not understand how councils can have awful things happen to children in their care?

[SoWhereIsTheElusiveWorkman]

I was gutted to learn of the death of Casey Louise Horrocks tonight. She was a thirteen year old girl from Manchester who was in the care system.

I am really at a loss and angry as to how councils, as corporate parents, can have children end up in danger.

Yes I have - (in a professional capacity) it took about a year from referral to therapy starting.

@BabyCatFace

The ASF and PPP are peanuts compared to the actual costs of therapy.
I adopted 14 years ago. We got ASF in its first year when it wasn't capped. Our package was worth £20k.
Its now capped at £3k. Doesn't buy a lot of therapy

These are vulnerable young people who are often wrapped up with or targets for dangerous and predatory people.

because they often abscond from secure places, they can be easily led as they are looking for attachment.

there will be an investigation into the service to find out wtf happened.

but young people in care are not prisoners. They are allowed to go out and have friends and socialise like every other young person and rightly so.

That was clearly her lived experience, and she was entitled to her view.

Local authorities are always looking for suitable foster carers and homes if anyone on here wants to help.

Corruption and collusion. Predators seek out these roles and they are low paid and understaffed. Recipe for disaster.

I adopted in 2001 when there was practically no support available. We accessed the asf for a few years. But anyway, my point is that these children have such enormous needs and no matter what support you get, these don't just disappear. I was making the point that the Gov sees how desperate it is because they do make this support available. No, it's not enough, yes it may be difficult to be assessed, but it exists because of the level of trauma these kids have experienced.

And children still in the care system are going to be struggling with many of the same issues as adopted children and imo the idea that social services can magically "save" them, turn their lives around etc is just not realistic. And you could fund all sorts of support - and i have known very challenging children who got SO much help - and it won't even touch the sides.

We can only hope that CCtv and serious oversight will give different outcomes this time around.

but I can’t say I’m optimistic

I know, I have experienced it - being told 10 times a day for weeks by DD1:

”Fuck off you bitch! I hate you! I want to kill you! I never want to see you again!

This could be sparked off, by telling her she couldn’t drink wine at 11 am, when alcohol could kill her. After that, at best she’d ignore me for the next 2 weeks. She could push me over. At times, I was genuinely afraid to be in the house on my own with her, and I’d ask DH not to go out. He’d get it too, at different times for not letting her have her own way for her own good; just not as much as women did. She used to punch him in the stomach. She could be like that with a female member of care staff for months or years! They used to have to change round the care staff, if she got like that with someone during a shift.

She was like that for 2 years. The consultant changed her drugs, and she became her normal happy self again!

Sure, but pp said it doesn't exist now, it does

Is it ok to repeat it on mumsnet threads as if it's fact? Are you proud of doing that?

@BabyCatFace
@Arran2024

Just to add, ASF is for adopted children. This thread was started about children in care. These children do not have an equivalent.
CAHMs is a broken service.
As a foster carer I have been on my knees begging for help for the last 2 boys in my care. They got nothing. The result - escalating levels of violence in my home and me becoming the target of their abuse.
At heart they were both bright boys with engaging personalities except when they were trashing my home. One was considered too dangerous to be in school but it was deemed acceptable for him to live with a single carer putting us both at risk.

People talking about corruption and collusion, and various other accusations- this wasn’t a staff member allowing or perpetrating abuse, from what I can see.

I think it’s unfair to accuse the staff in this case.

Yes the system needs investment.

As for not caring, well maybe. But attaching with a child with the kinds of problems experienced in these settings isn’t easy, not because they aren’t likeable- often they are- but because it’s risky. You can’t fix everything, the child will push you away to an extent most parents wouldn’t understand. And you need to preserve some of yourself for your own family situation as well.

I have a chronic illness most likely from trying to maintain a placement longer than I should. I was thoroughly attached. When it all went to shit, and the LA behaved badly/unfortunately in the aftermath, I was left in pieces.

Staff need to keep a corner of their heart safely tucked away, or they’ll burn out and be no good for anyone.

Yes I know. The point i was making is that the Gov in England makes this support available to these children, who have highly motivated adoptive parents, and still it doesn't necessarily fix things, and the idea that local authorities will somehow be able to work wonders with a similar group of children is just naive.

Btw looked after children qualify for plenty of other support. Many adopters have found that support they were asking for and wasn't forthcoming is available if the child goes back into care.

But my main point is that so many of these children, adopted or in care, have such challenging problems and no one knows how to fix them.

I worked with children in care many years ago.

The young people came to us for a variety of reasons but many because they'd been rejected/thrown out by family and most already had an established history of self-destructive behaviour (self-harm, offending, drug and alcohol misuse, inappropriate sexual relationships etc).

If they wanted to walk out of the children's home, they could. We couldn't physically stop them (or we could have been done for assault). Obviously we'd try reasoning with them but stood no chance. Often they'd be returned by the police (as we'd have to report them.missing) but, more often than not would leave again very soon afterwards.

It was rare for the courts to grant a secure order (meaning that they would be "locked up" in a secure unit and unable to leave).

Maybe try working within the sector to see where the flaws are.

BTW my post was aimed at the "blame the council/social services" posters.

@Arran2024

Until very recently I worked in the Dept for Education. I can tell you that children's social care is not quite what I would call a priority

I don't think i suggested it was. Adopters get support largely because of Michael Gove's personal interest (he was adopted). The adoption support fund is only available in England and it was introduced, and has been maintained, even while everything around it was being culled. Social care is of course a local authority responsibility and so central government chooses to leave it alone.

I worked in a children’s home. One 13 year old had been in the care system since she was 3m. She had also, obviously, been SA at some stage. Horrific.

And in the home itself, the locked doors would pen automatically if the fire alarm was set off. The residents used to do this at 2am, and run off into the city. The staff could not stop them as the kids were organised and prepared to just run. Only 1 didn’t used to go. He used to say “Nah I’m not getting into that kinda shit”. Then the police wi deal with it and start searching all the usual places. Eventually they would bring them back. It was heartbreaking as they just did t want to hear how vulnerable they were.

People saying no one cares- that’s not true- but the people who DO care have no authority or influence to change things. No one listens to a key worker. The whole thing is heartbreaking 💔

I think the difficulty is policticians want votes - policies that affect many voters will always gain more traction than ones that don't. There's also not necessarily anyone to kick up a fuss about children in care either to try and action change. Whereas in reality they should be a priority as some of societies most vulnerable.

Is your 13 year old in your sight at all times?

This is an absolute tragedy but I don't think you can foot the blame with social services without knowing more.

How do you expect to keep them in sight? Kids in care often run, police are called, child is returned, child runs, repeat.

SS has been under funded for more than +10yrs. Social workers are hard to find and the current ones have much larger number of children than is safe to have, they will burn out because it is unsustainable

As a foster carer I know our LA, SS and local police force put LOADS of targeted support to children at risk ( way above what most people would ever think) involving schools, families etc.

Ive not read the case mentioned (not my area) but obviously when something goes wrong, it can go tragically wrong and that needs to be investigated and lessons DO need to be learned, not just be said!!

Pride doesn’t come into it! It’s a public forum, and posters are free to post whatever they like, so long as it’s not racist, ageist, sexist, ablist, etc. I posted one point of view, from the lived experience of someone, who is dead. So, they are not going to be bothered about it.

Back on the 80s I had a girl in my class of a similar age, who was resident in a children's home. I lost count of the number of times she escaped from it. She didn't want to be there. She wanted to be back with her awful criminal, drug addict parents, and to see her friends (she'd been deliberately moved to a children's home away from her home town, for safeguarding reasons).

There was no way to keep her there. She wasn't a prisoner. No-one had a right to detain her, not should they have had.

How can they let them out of their sight?
Are you actually serious?
If the child is not on a DOLs they can't prevent children from leaving the building.
Staff will follow risk assessments but a child in care has the same freedoms as a child living at home ( generally speaking)