To not understand how councils can have awful things happen to children in their care?

[SoWhereIsTheElusiveWorkman]

I was gutted to learn of the death of Casey Louise Horrocks tonight. She was a thirteen year old girl from Manchester who was in the care system.

I am really at a loss and angry as to how councils, as corporate parents, can have children end up in danger.

Agree! We certainly don't need fewer social work managers, I've no idea why that poster thinks that's a place that represents wastage!

A friend of mine grew up in care, decades ago; so lack of funding in the system now, is irrelevant.

She said

”Care is a pale shelter. There’s no love. Social workers have a different standard of care for their own children!”

Having had a DD in specialist residential schools/care home, due to complex medical needs; attachment is possible in care homes and it works both ways. However, DD was always in places, run by charities. There was no profit motive; and the care staff were backed up by onsite multi disciplinary teams of professionals. If DD exhibits challenging behaviour, the care staff can call immediately on the her doctors (as it’s a result of her medical condition), Positive Behaviour Support Team, a consultant psychiatrist, etc.

IMO, children and young people suffering complex problems and trauma need far more professional input than they get, from inexperienced, poorly paid care workers and a fragmented, inadequate NHS (especially MH services). There is no place for profit in care.

Well social services like every other critical but nonsexy thing is chronically underfunded and stretched to breaking point, which doesn't help. When you work people to the point of burnout and compassion fatigue, it doesn't help them help the people they are hired to help.

Then the systems are not well joined up again because of funding deficits over time so there is a lot of passing the buck which is traumatic for children and further cements the impression that adults can't be trusted and don't care about them, and even when they do care someone else will get in the way and ruin it anyway.

Children who are vulnerable don't usually present as Oliver or Pollyanna types, they often present in a very unsympathetic way (difficult behaviours) which predisposes a lot of adults not to want to have much to do with them or to push them off to the next person/placement/etc, which means any support they might have received is often fragmented and can't help them sufficiently. You can see this in any discussion about schools and children with challenging behaviours. It happens even for children in secure, loving families, so children without that base are even more at a disadvantage.

There are quite few people who properly understand this and even if you do understand it, it doesn't make it that much easier to work with someone who is traumatised and angry and poised to distrust you and see you as an enemy.

It wouldn't cost that much to fix either. There are relatively not that many children in the system. And it saves so much money elsewhere down the line. NHS, police, prisons etc.

Social workers have a different standard of care for their own children!

what a cruel and unpleasant thing to say about people working extremely hard in almost untenable conditions to advocate for children when their own parents can't.

My own mum was put in a care home and was abused horrifically - she had cigarette burns on her breasts. Not one person was held accountable.

The truth is is the government and council don't give a shit. Poor and inconsistent investment in children and families. Heavy reliance on agency workers to deliver front line work who are more likely to be poorly trained and paid pittance.

I remember working in a charity over a decade ago and the ceo stating that the government don't want to know the true figures of child abuse because they wouldn't have enough money to invest in it. I think he's right. Government and councils will easily prioritise other things, but this? Never. Plus cruel and sadistic people live amongst us and in the UK even if you are charged, the chances of you being found guilty are low and then even the punishment is non existent.

As a victim myself - the reality is councils don't care. There is little out there to help you pick up the pieces. I work in safeguarding now and I have seen awful practice. I really do despair at it all.

16 may be a minor but we're talking about the rape and murder of a younger girl here, the second rape the 16yo has been accused of. It's not some stupid teenage mistake, it's not a fight gone too far. A 16 yo, severe learning disability aside, will have capacity to understand the consequences of murder

There are currently 107,000 children in care in the UK. That's a lot of children needing a lot of help.

Each year there are about 3k children adopted from the care system. The rest stay in care or go home.

Of the adopted children, research shows that about a third do well, another third have significant difficulties but do ok, and a third do extremely badly. And adopters are highly motivated to help these children. The government in England provides money for private therapy for all adopted children. They are supported in schools via PPP. These children were mostly removed when quite young.

And yet with huge levels of support, so many cannot overcome their problems, which may be a mixture of attachment, foetal alcohol, drug exposure, domestic violence, sexual and physical abuse, inherited learning disabilities....

The children who go into care later may struggle with all of these too. And turning things round for these children is astonishingly difficult. If motivated adopters can't do it, how can social services?

I adopted 24 years ago and i have been heavily invested in the attempts to find solutions to the problems these children face. I have been to so many seminars - seen the research, listened to the experts.

What works best is giving children a decent start in the first place. Sadly there is so much recycling of inter-generational trauma and repeating mistakes over and over again.

People have tried everything - sending kids to wilderness camps for example was all the rage when I adopted. Then it was all about horse riding and drumming. Then autistic parenting strategies. Atm foetal alcohol is being seen as the big issue.

Whatever, there is no big idea that is going to fix things. And we can't expect social services to magic up solutions.

Denmark has had more success with kids in care staying on in education and going to university. The key thing seemed to be continuity of care, carers being properly trained, paid and valued, actually caring for the kids and not chopping and changing all the time. 100,000 is not a lot - ideally there would be none but there are 14.1 million children in the UK. Every single one should matter, and especially the <1% in care.

“The government in England provides money for private therapy for all adopted children. They are supported in schools via PPP.“

ah, thats a funny joke, yeah, sadly that no longer happens!

The people working in the system do care. Maybe the fault lies with tax payers who don't want to fund services adequately and dont want a children's residential home on their street.

100% this.

People are only interested when it involves brown people and grooming gangs, and have no real interest in actually fixing anything

Total rubbish.

How many newspaper column inches have been devoted to fixing the care system that didn't involve 'grooming gangs' when was the last discussion on TV you saw that didn't include them?

It's the same with immigration. Never mind the complex issues, all we read about is 'boat people'

Maybe that's all you read about. There has been plenty of discussion about the care system.

Yes it does? The adoption support fund and pupil premium are both current

I had a friend in care and the children's home she was in at one point was staffed by well meaning but completely ineffective young staff. None who had their own kids. Some only ten years older than us. The bullying was rife against the SEN kids and the staff couldn't do much. Their 'tellings off' held no value.

They don't get any love from these people. They know they're just there because they're being paid. So it affects self esteem a lot I think.

But they certainly can't keep an eye on teens at all times, they can't force them to have no life outside the home.

But this case of which you speak, it could have happened to any teenager potentially.

Because children in care aren't in prison.

If they walk home from school, they entitled to go elsewhere rather than home. That can mean smoking round the back of the bus station, taking drugs in a squat or meeting a man.

Inexperience and a desire for attention or affection leaves them vulnerable, just as it does to some dcs who are not in care. Social services can't provide 1 to 1 minders.

Again you can't blame anyone person , the loss of this very young person is dreadfull ,our thoughts and prayers go to the familly , wherever you live local social services seem to be so underfunded, under another section of social services local my wife had dimentia and their seemed enough staff to deal with a county , ares, city , town etc social service needs what do you think , the loss of this young person is so dreadfull , that's how it appears in the oxfordshire any way

But the waiting list is so long in some places it effectively never happens before they cease to be a child and join the adult list for therapy which is even longer.

The Gov is running the adoption support fund again this year - it has been watered down a bit tbf but it still exists.

I must be mad, I qualified as a Social Worker in 1981 and retired a couple of years ago. I didn't work with children but with adults and older people with mental health issues. I loved my job, even when it was draining me. The problem is in my opinion that the world has become more complex and dangerous. When social work became defined as a profession, everything was under local authorities. Unfortunately that became more expensive and complicated. There was massive outsourcing to private contractors, to keep costs down Nowadays you can earn more in a Supermarket stacking shelves than caring for people and private agencies are making money. A complete rethink is necessary and a proper control of care and provision,out of local authorities hands. This will stop disparities across the country, proper regulation and care, which is sadly lacking in the country today.

The adoption support fund bypasses the CAMHS waiting list. Parents can choose a therapist and get it funded. There is an assessment by the adoption support agency, then it's all set up.

Have you tried getting access to it lately? I was advised to consider disrupting our adoption when I sought additional support for our son. PP+ is no longer ring fenced, so most schools, like our sons used it as part of the greater budget.

The wait in our area was 43 months for the assessment!